This ‘I’ That Knows Presence Must Be What I Am in Reality - 28th March 2016

Now, the only way—if the appearances are not touching the witness, the only way for appearances to touch you is that if you are something other than the witness. Because you say that there is no way that these appearances touch this witness, therefore, for these appearances to affect you, you must be something other than the witness. Can you become something other than this?

Cannot become. No, I don't know what happens when it goes into that space. It's like...

So what goes into that space? Let's look at that. What is the ability to give reality to these appearances? That is our attention, isn't it? To give seeming reality to these appearances, we have a power called attention. So it is attention that goes into this phenomenal realm and makes it come alive seemingly. So attention has gone here and there; it's been everywhere. What has happened to the witness because of it? Can we just look again at the witness? Because I don't want, like, just say 'I'm the witness' because I've been saying it every time. I assume that I know anything till you have a direct experience. Just look at it now. Yes, all of you, let's look together at this. Use any sensation in the body and check: who is witnessing it? There is a witnessing which is undeniable. And allow anything to come—any sensation, any sound—and check: who witnesses this? Is there a witnessing of it or no?

There is.

Then we said, what is more intimate? Is it the witnessing that I truly am, or is it the appearance that I am? It's simpler than that. Whatever is coming in the way and saying that this is difficult or it's getting cloudy, it's simpler than that. Because whatever is seeming to cloud it up also is seen. No? Because many times we say that 'I'm getting these blocks along the way, I am getting these clouds along the way.' We can say these, but in this there is an inherent presumption that I have to walk from here to there, only then can I be blocked, isn't it? There can be a block only if I'm trying to get somewhere. I am asking: where are you already?

I'm just here.

So we are not trying to get anywhere, not trying to move a single inch. Just seeing this: that any appearance, be it cloudiness or openness, I am witnessing that. It's just too simple.

It's too simple. It's too simple. Simplest. It just feels like now, like the mind has been given so much energy that it actually even doubts the witnessing and trying to trace the witnessing that I already am, and I can't be seen like that. And then it's trying to put a picture that something's trying to grab on. It's like, this is what's going on.

Yes, but all of this you would not even be able to say unless there was a witnessing of it.

Yeah.

So the mind with all of its tricks has no power to dent the witnessing in any way.

No, nothing happens to me as such.

Yes. So now this witnessing is here. This is the predominant truth of what I truly am. And then what is the most intimate experience, phenomenal experience? It is this sense that 'I am,' I exist. Check, keep checking with me. So there's this witnessing which is not even being; it is just the witnessing. It is just awareness itself.

There's always resistance to that.

Even this resistance—don't resist the resistance. Let it come. Even that is seen. This seeing is untouched by any resistance. And then you find that the being is also untouched by any resistance. That's why I've given you this key to ask yourself: can I stop being? So is this being also witnessed or not?

You know of the presence. This is exactly what I'm saying. There is a knowingness of the being, but that doesn't feel like me.

We haven't even got to feeling yet, you see? Right now we're just at the seeing and the being. Now with this being, there is all of this phenomenal play that starts. All the energies start, all the forces of God, all the forces of consciousness, they start. What happened to the witnessing in all of this? Did something happen? No matter what the state is, no matter what the appearance is, not even if the appearance of being is there or not, does something happen to this, to the seeing?

Yes... I don't want to say no. Yeah, I don't want to say no, right, because I can't confirm it.

Yes, yes. But right now you see that even being is not affecting the witnessing in any way, to the seeing in any way, although it might be very intimate there. The knowing is there, but...

Yes.

So this—this knowing—can it be touched by even the being? Affected in any way by the being?

The being is not affected in any way.

The being is not affected in any way. I'm saying: is the knowing affected even by the being? You say there is a knowing of being, but is the knowing affected by this being who's with me in this room?

This one doesn't make sense to me.

There's a knowing or no?

Yeah.

Yes. There's a knowing of the being?

Yes, there's a knowing of the being.

Is it you that is knowing or not?

Yeah.

So if you are the knowing, then the being is the most primal appearance which is coming in front of you. So if being is arising, what way is the arising of the being affecting this knowing that you are? Okay, then in the light of this being, all the rest of this drama starts, isn't it? All the play, the energies, the joy and the bliss and the grief and the sadness—all of this arises in the light of this consciousness, on the screen of the same consciousness, you see? So if the being itself did not touch the knowing, then how can any of that play which is happening within the beingness touch this knowing?

So well, it's not doing anything to anybody. The appearances are not...

Yes. No appearance can ever hurt this. The problem starts when there's a sense that the opinion shouldn't be this way because I have been in satsang.

Yes.

And this sense means what? That 'it should not be this way' means what? A thought is coming: 'it should not be this way.' And then it brings all its friends.

And brings all his friends, all cousins, all...

Yes. So what if you say that 'I am this knowing'? Then what happens if it brings the entire army of cousins and friends? If you are the witnessing of it and the witnessing is untouched? It's like the space in this room is complaining about how many of us are there. 'I just want one or two, you know, 40-50 becomes too much.' Is it concerned? The space in this room is unconcerned with what is appearing inside the room, and there is no way that anything appearing inside the room can harm the space, you see? And the fact is that you're not even this space; you are the witness of even this space. So this space of being is where all of this play is happening, and you are just watching it.

That doesn't hit home always, Father. Not always.

But now, even right now, it doesn't—like its effort to the seeing, the seeing is untouched by anything that's happening in the appearances which are all happening in the being.

Yes, but when I—when I check, yes, the seeing doesn't feel—I don't even want to say feel—but I don't feel at home with the seeing. Like, I don't feel...

Okay, so at what distance is the seeing from you? If you have to be comfortable with something, like if you have to be comfortable with your roommate, you see, there must be some distance between the two of you. Now, at what distance is the seeing from you?

Um...

Where are you that the seeing is not? Is there anywhere where this seeing is but you are not?

I can say the being is everywhere that I am, or wherever I am, and you know this one...

Yes, yes. This knowing is what I'm calling the seeing, you see? The awareness. Yeah. So this knowing knows of being. So what is closer to you? You say, 'I know that presence is here, that being is here.' You don't say, 'Being knows that I am here.' If there was a being that knew that I am here, then the being would be the predominant one and I would be an object in comparison to that. Do you say, 'I know of the presence'? Therefore, you are the predominant one.

This knowingness... I'm sorry, I'm just taking time.

It's good. It's okay.

Like, there's always a move to confirm from the mind, especially with the seeing here. It's not 'do I know presence' or 'does presence know.' I was all checked. I know presence. I know presence. Therefore, this 'I' that knows even presence must be what I am in reality. Like, it's too simple and something's trying too hard.

Yes, it is too simple. Simpler than simple. Because very naturally we could be having the same conversation, you know? We could just be sitting and saying, 'I know of presence.' That's all that you're saying.

It's like something has to click or something.

Yeah, but this already clicked. 'I know of presence.' This is clear or no?

It is.

It is 'I' that know of presence. It is not presence that knows of me. Therefore, this knowingness must be greater. And this knowingness has no size, shape, form, nothing. It remains unchanged, untouched. It has no time. As I say all of these things, check for yourself if it is true or not. Don't just hear them as like nice fancy words, 'so beautiful,' no. Just check. It's the unchanging, untouched witnessing. It has no time. It knows no effort, has no color, size, and shape. It is not a visual, it is not imagination. It knows sleep and waking. Some of you must be sleepy and you can check that even this sense of sleepiness, of falling asleep for a few seconds and waking up, you know of it. No state changes this. It does not move. It is neither big nor small. We cannot find the location of it, and yet it is. It is neither sad nor happy, neither blissful nor grieving, neither confused nor clear. All this does not apply to this. This is your unchanging reality. That which is changeful is just coming and going appearances. So the instant we can say that it is seen, in that instant we should be able to also see that it is just another appearance. There is nothing you need from any appearance. This seeing does not need anything from anything, and yet it has no lack. Contentment or desire mean nothing for this. It has no likes or dislikes. It has no way it is supposed to be. No concepts apply to it at all. And whether you like it or not, this is what you are. Resist with all your might, but you cannot convince me that you are something other than this. 'I' is just another appearance coming and going, a passing cloud in the sky. And we say, 'Hi, I am going, this is happening to me.' You are the witness of it. You are not keeping up the witnessing. You're not making sure you're a good witness and sometimes you become a bad witness. It is just the witnessing itself.

It's like the seeing is more home than the witnessing. Witness—the seeing is more home because the witness, when I'm saying is, I'm referring to the witnessing itself, which is the same as the seeing. So I'm saying, like, the presence also doesn't feel like me.

Only a sage can say that. To say even that, 'before this I am, I am.' So the one that wants to own this seeing says, 'Now I saw it.' You see? This one is also seen. The one that says, 'I hope this doesn't go, I hope this remains like this,' this one is also seen. The tricks of the mind. Because you already saw that the seeing is unchanging and unmoving. It doesn't even need any help from the mind. It doesn't need any reinforcement saying, 'I hope it stays this way' or 'not, I better be like this.' This advice is not for the seeing. The seeing is just seen and being is just being. This voice is just talking nonsense. Will anything from the mind help this seeing become better at seeing? Will any advice from the mind help the being do a better job at being?

It's like there's really nothing to understand.

There is nothing to understand. Yes. And this the mind cannot understand.

There's no play also. Feeling there's no play. It doesn't—like at this moment there's nothing.

When we see the play, it's just that these appearances come and go. Cannot deny that these appearances come and go.

It's like only when there's a sense of time that the play—only if we believe it to be. Like right now there is no play.

Yes. It's just I'm talking to you. I have no idea what...

Yes. So the appearance of this talking and listening is happening, but there's no investment in any of this, you see? So because you're not believing that you're part of this play of appearances, there's something going on and I'm not in it. I can't even say I am not in it because...

Okay, no need to say that also. But definitely you can't say 'I am in it.'

No. Yes. Like I can just see the thoughts arise and just die. Like me—like just thoughts arising and dying.

All appearances are arising and dying. Does it make any difference to this seeing?

No, makes no difference to anybody.

To anybody, because there is nobody here.

Doesn't compute.

It does no, because you say the seeing is untouched by it, you see? The seeing is not a somebody.

Even the being feels like nobody.

Yes, yes. It's just the sameness is also nobody, but it's like energetic something.

Yes, it feels like energetic presence which is known.

You.