For Identity to Exist, There Must be a Belief - 7th Sept. 2016

No, I understand. You weren't born in a Jain family?

Yes, I am. And I did the blood and I was fasting. So did it break my fast? It just came like that. And I had this absolute clarity of insight which said—not said, but just insight which says—that fasting is for the senses that reach out, not for the natural responses. I asked my mom, she's like, 'You didn't do it intentionally, it's okay, nobody cares,' you know? So that's her way of showing love and everything. But for me, that insight was enough to know that fasting is not something that I am doing; it's for the senses, you know, just to bring yourself in some center. Whereas this, just taking this in, probably was a natural response and I didn't feel guilty about it at all. And I shared it with a friend and he said that you're probably the first Jain vampire. It's like, I think for me that is insight. But if I probably would have held on to it, like the mind would still bring up all these stories, you know, some stories from Jain Mahavir's life and all the stories that we grew up listening and, you know, different, different things, a lot of other things that just kept... I think that I would say the cognizing ego which is trying to pull you consistently, as insight is like, 'Okay, this is it,' and it's gone. It doesn't care whether you agree or not, don't agree, or what happens. So for me, that's the cognizing ego. Are you talking... so does it make sense?

Let's, let's look, dig deeper into this. It's very good. So when we are linking it back to what the ego is, let's use one of your sentences. You say that 'I might be the first Jain vampire.' So this 'I' is which one?

This is the one that the world has perceived me to be, to be a Jain and a vampire. But okay, I would... I am not Jain or vampire.

Yep, so yeah, it's good. So Jain is an identity, vampire is an identity. Identities can be kept aside, you see? So all this collection of identities, collection of beliefs, you see? You see already, isn't it? You cannot identify as if you are something unless you believe a thought about it. Do you see this?

Yes, really, yes.

So all of our identities, which are constantly changing anyway from time to time, you see? From five years ago, they could be a different set of belief systems, different set of identities which we believe ourselves to be. You know, 'I am like this, I am rebellious, I work in this way, I am very truthful, I'm honest.' You see, all these ideas we have about ourselves, they keep changing over periods of time, you see? So if for a moment we keep all of these identities aside, as you say that 'I'm neither this nor that, neither Jain nor vampire,' is there something which you are which is undeniable?

I can't define it.

Yeah, so but you are not able to put it in language? Is that the problem, or is it that you can't find it?

I can't put it in language. I can't put it in language.

Which is not such a big problem, actually. It's a good thing. So if you remember, I think in the Heart Altar I had mentioned once there was this whole chaos that was going on. I don't remember if you recollected...

I do, yes, yes, yes. And between, during that chaos when those inquiry or inquiries arose, and that even to type that word known as 'I', I just couldn't get... I just couldn't bring anything else. You know, that's true, but I had to write it because I had to somehow get it out of my system. But I think the problem is holding on or being let known as, because at mind...

Okay, so now what have you discovered so far in our conversation? That there is a set of identities which can be held on to, you see? When we talked about the religious identity or some sort of phenomenal functioning identity which can be held on to. Now, and we also said that these identities function or are a function of our belief. So that which is a function of our beliefs and comes and goes with our belief in it, you see, does that have any cognizing ability?

It feels to me, no.

Yes. So this bundle of beliefs, this baggage of identity itself inherently is nothing but concepts which have been given belief, you see? So that in itself, these concepts obviously cannot have any abilities to cognize, you see? Now, what is it that has the power of belief then? Is it an identity?

I think we could say it is an identity. Well, it feels more like something that draws attention with me with identity. Maybe identities are what I would get it...

Now let's look closer at this. Because if identity itself relies on belief, then for there to be identity, first there must be the power of belief. So belief must be prior to identity, isn't it? Can there be identity without belief?

There cannot be.

There cannot be, you see? Therefore, belief cannot be a function of an identity itself, because for identity to exist, there first must be a belief. Yes? Okay, so we've already come to a very beautiful point where we see that belief seems to be more primal a function of power than any particular identity can have. So now we are seeing that this ego can neither cognize, these identities can neither cognize, nor do they have any power, including the power of belief, you see? That which itself is a belief cannot have the power of belief, you see? Yeah. So identity itself is a belief and therefore just a belief cannot have a power. If I believe that I am a Martian or a vampire like you said, then that vampire cannot have the power, you see? Because that vampire itself is a belief, or the Martian itself is a belief. So that which is just conceptual can have no power even in this phenomenal realm. Now we find that in the sleep state there is nothing like belief or not believe. Only in the waking state these powers come: attention, belief, you see? So what is it that changes between sleep state and waking state?

I don't know.

It's very good to look. So when you say also, I asked you what time did you wake up this morning? Okay, so when you woke up at 7:00 AM, so what is it that woke up at seven? We have always said 'I woke up,' you see? But already you said that there is awareness of sleep and there is awareness of waking. So if awareness is the constant, then what is that which woke up at seven?

I think attention woke up at seven to look at the clock and see seven.

Not bad. This is very good. I love the first awareness answer and you're right. But even attention, even for attention to exist, don't you have to exist first? Is there ever the experience of attention without there being the sense that I exist?

Yes, yes.

So actually you touched on a very beautiful point, which is that for many years I have actually said that attention, belief, all of these are products of our existing, our existence, our being. But as we look at it more, we realize that the birth of attention and being is almost like the birth of twins, you see? Both are like conjoined twins. So this existence, wasn't it there in the sleep state?

You know, what comes right now is the mind's... or so far what's been my belief of beingness and presence. This is what I relate to as the existence and maybe that's why I am not in a position to... I don't know the existence in the form of sleep state.

Yes, very good. So if I offer you this question: can you stop being now? And you actually have to physically try to stop being.

That's not possible.

Is it? So this being, you see, is it present in sleep state? So okay, so let's, let's do it this way. That if I give you a proposition that at seven o'clock what woke up was this sense of being, or the awareness of being, or not being remained constant, then can you check on this and see whether this is the case or not?

I don't know. I don't feel like checking. I don't feel like checking.

That's very good, very good to be able to explore that. So why don't you feel like checking? If you take on the... okay, usually when I discover, maybe end of the journey... yes, yes, you see? This is, this is very important and very, very happily exposes... the minute it feels like, 'Okay, this might be the end,' you see, then something feels like, 'No, no, no, this is too much fun right now, let's not go too quickly,' you know? Something can feel like that. And for some it can be like, 'Ahhh,' and after probably 15-20 minutes of the satsang already saying, you know, you had a chance and you missed it. We should know this is the one-two punch. This is the one-two punch of the mind, you see? So also what can happen is that sometimes it can be like this: 'No, no, no, the journey is too much fun, but it will come to an end.' But the fun... it's not like I'm one lifeless robot, it's not like that. The fun doesn't end. The second thing can be that for many, when we are exploring like this at this level, very directly moving away from conceptual ideas, then it can feel like a subtle fear of death can come, or a subtle fear of something, anything can come. Yeah. So for some it can be lightweight, the sense it can feel like, 'Oh, it's more fun, a little longer journey,' and some can be a stronger resistance, like we had this recently where one felt like she had to leave the room, she could not sit, you see? She just had to leave because it felt like a strong fear or something was coming up in that checking, you see? But it's not bad. We've already looked at a lot of beautiful insights. And this is the reason why we actually have satsang so frequently, Monday to Friday, because I know sometimes we can come to a point and can feel like, 'Okay, enough, let me marinate in this for now and then I will build some more spiritual stamina and come back to you.' This deeper looking, which is, which is absolutely fine. So the intent here is not to push you into it. Already I feel we've clarified a lot of insights today.

And more directly, I know myself to where I may not come again anytime soon. Be ready.

Well, because this can also feel like, you see, this consumerial 'I might not come back,' you see? And that way I find that one of my Master's blessings or the Guru's blessings is that those who are my children in the Sangha will love me too much to not come back, you see? So you might not trust yourself enough to come back, or no thought, which I know that there is something already there because something is saying 'push me' and the same one is saying 'don't push me.' This 'push me, don't push me' is going on. And already the question which is pushing you is there with you, which is that: what is it that wakes up when I wake up at seven o'clock? It is a very, very primal question. If you can look at this, you see, at your own pace comfortably, then you will find that something will reveal itself to you. Now already I've also given you the question: can you stop being? And I've said that this question is correlated with this waking state. So what is this being that cannot be stopped and yet we have direct experience of something called sleep, that even this being is not present, you see? So this question 'can you stop being' is a response to a prayer which is 'can you show me God.' So to come face-to-face with God is to explore this question: can I stop being? What is this beingness that is here? Is it personal? Does it have desires and aversions? Does it have likes and dislikes? Without the light of this being, does anything exist? All these forces of gravity, light, sound, electricity, all the senses of touch, taste, smell, sight, hearing—all of these, can any of this exist without you being first? Therefore, what must be this being? And ultimately, for whom is this being, which seems to be the light of this universe, also coming and going? So this is the exploration that we are doing together and it's a wonderful, joyous journey. So wonderful, joyous looking. And some fears can come, some resistance can come, sometimes lethargy can come, you see? And it's okay. I am not going to leave you so easily. [Laughter]