Being is Coming to the Recognition of That from which it Arises - 18th April 2016

You might give it to my mind. You want to come, you can come. This is one of the confusing things because I don't know which word, you know, so it is going to show up now. I'm just in a window thing, let's see what happens. And she doesn't know, so this is good. Something about what we were saying earlier, yes. So now can you find the witness which is hurt by any of this in thoughts? You see them come and go?

Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes. But even fear is an appearance. It seems very real to me because it's my daughter being affected. She cries and she's scared. So when I see that, I don't see it as an appearance in that moment.

We feel free, and it's a funny story actually. When we moved to this house for the first time in my life, we had something like a terrace garden. In the terrace garden, there were thousands and thousands of plants and various things which had been there. But I took some seeds and planted them, something I don't even remember what I planted. And every day in the morning, the first thing I would check on were the seeds that I had planted, as if the rest of the plants are not plants, only the one that I had planted. So this is the nature of attachment. So when we identify ourselves to have a sense of ownership over something, we call something me or mine, then that is attachment.

So this is attachment. Now I have given for one attachment, that's a mother one, yes.

So you have the free pass for this, yeah. So you don't worry about this one, this attachment. Don't worry about trying to get rid of it. The mother one, you don't have to try and get rid of it. You can keep it. So now you have this attachment and you're free to act completely attached when it comes to this one. What about the rest?

He just does it on purpose or I don't know for what reason he does like that, but it scares her. And then I can't take it when she's hurt. So even though I don't feel I'm his sister, but still it hurts me. So this is where I feel scared.

There is no attachment which is free from suffering or hurt, you see? So when you give yourself the free pass to keep the mother attachment, then you're also giving this allowance to suffer because of it or to be hurt because of it. So see, it is a natural part of this existence because it is not an attachment which we can just wish aside. It is there and it is bound to give you some suffering and also bound to give you some joy.

I saw him going like that twice, an arrow like yesterday in the forest, and then in the morning he came and he said sorry to her. I could not retaliate, like I could not oppose what you are saying. I was just trying to keep quiet because I was just trying to just witness what he was doing. If I don't react, I said I got that thing, I shouldn't react to what he does, then it might trigger more or something. What if he were to be physically dominating me? So far, no. So far he hasn't, but even the other day which had happened that I told about my mom, but that day it was really horrible as a mother.

Because we keep this one, and as the mother you have to take a call on whether it is a safe environment for her to be in or not.

Yeah, but my son would also be... Father, you see yourself that you are not attached to a lot, but my dad is attached to her. So I think all other goals are secondary before this one.

Okay, now I have to take a call on whether this is a safe environment for her or not. Yeah, and if you feel that it is not, then we can find some other place. There's so many of us staying here. Here is this phenomenally, and that keeps speaking. It makes no sense to put her in any sort of danger. So you have to take a call and you have to see.

My dad said the same thing, just a few more days, the week will be over and then you can just be. But I can see that he's not letting, he doesn't want us to go also because he's attached to her more, more than me. It's like a circle.

He looks in this practical world, it's always easier when you have just one or two variables. If you put too many variables into a decision, then it makes it very confused. The primary variable in this case is: is your daughter safe in the environment that you're in? And if you find that it's just this one who is scaring or whatever it is, it's just play like this and nothing really will happen, then it's fine.

Father, but he's also not like normal as yet. He doesn't understand her. So I thought that I'm defending our thing, but from where he comes, he doesn't know what he does in that moment.

Okay, so we're not blaming him. No judgment about him. No mental concerns over this.

Oh, I am. But even given that that is the case, you will not be able to... I mean, really, nobody would want something to happen to her, anything. So that is the call you have to take given all the circumstances and everybody how they are. Is it a safe environment for her or if it is not, then are you willing to take that risk?

I take that risk. It's going, it's going to be a different route then. It might create another problem now because there, then it might trigger him again. Just do everything that you can if we just be with her all, you know, make sure that she's never alone with him.

Yeah, yeah, no, that way she doesn't leave me even if I want to. That way she's always with me. Even if he's around, we just sit in that room or something. We just try to work him completely. Only a few more days left. So another one week, that's it. After that, we won't be able to see him much when he gets busy. So that way I'm protecting her.

No problem. Yeah, I think yes, nothing is there, Father. So that thing is catching us when these moments come.

It's just has a beautiful inquiry into attachment. Yeah, mother attachment, it is very, very primal. Some of you might be wondering, if you're new to satsang, you might be wondering that why is he saying keep this attachment? You should say let go of this also. But you would have seen that if you try to push this one aside, this one becomes very much an ego tussle because it's very primal, you see? Even small animals fight with lions and elephants to keep their offspring alive and to keep themselves. So don't, no need to fight this one. See this one happen.

Because when I had those moments, it was, I felt the fear. Like, you know, the fear was really intense and that was like trying to let go of that, that nothing will happen, you know, something like that. It was not easy, Father, it's not easy. It took like one or two hours or until he came back or he didn't do it. This fear of what if he comes and does something again, because I can't tell her anything and trying to... but sometimes she wouldn't know what is happening. She forgets and she gets back normal again. Maybe she's forgotten what he said, but I'm not able to forget it, you know. So those moments are really fearful for me. I forget everything and be in that fear. But what the voice, it's horrible to be in that, horrible. It's like it's better to die than to be in that moment, even though your mom or whatever, because I don't know, I felt like that twice. And then morning when he said that, I felt relieved actually today in the morning when he said, 'I'm sorry.' But she is so, so resistant, so she doesn't want to go to him. I can only look at his face, you know, and somehow we are trying to... I'm not putting that negative thing to her that what he's doing and you know, saying she needs pretending or something. That fear comes and it's horrible to see.

So if you feel it, if you're with her all the time, nothing will happen, then it's okay. Because you can't have it both ways, no? You say it's...

I felt relieved actually today in the morning. He said, 'I'm sorry, but she is so resistant, slow. She doesn't want to go to him.' I can only look at his face, you know, and somehow we are trying to... I'm not putting that negative thing to her, that what he's doing and, you know, saying she is pretending or something. That fear comes and it's horrible to see. If you're with her all the time, nothing will happen, then it's okay. Because you can't have it both ways, no? You say it's worse than an epic, and yet you don't want to upset your father by moving away. I can't do that because if I do, it'll upset the whole thing. My brother is even more... not worth it. I don't know, because the other day it was almost that kind of thing. The event that happened, the thing which happened, was closer to that something would have happened. But I was like... because I was not involved in that, I was in the room holding on, and I couldn't get out of the room at all for something like that. I don't know why I'm talking also this one, but like when I had a fight with my mom, I could see that there was no fear. I could literally be, but as I said, it was not really touching me in any way. I could get detached and watch everything. But when this thing happened, it was like burning inside. I couldn't actually step out and look at it. I couldn't do that. It was a bit of an intense moment for me.

This is a hundred times more intense version of the funny thing which we say, which is that if you ever feel you are enlightened, go spend a weekend with your family. This is the more intense version of the same thing. What does it mean, actually? We can look at this. No, it only means that very quickly when you're with your family, they make a 'somebody' out of you. Sitting alone at home, it just feels like, 'I'm nobody.' Yes, what an enticing thing. Really nobody. There is no ego, there is no person, you see. It's true, everything is coming and going. So those circumstances in which we are convinced that we are somebody, this is what I mean. Usually it is family; for some it is work; for some it is body-related stuff; and for some it is the seeker identity itself that convinces them that they are somebody who needs to find this freedom. So what is it that makes a 'somebody' out of us? Even those who have left their families and are living in caves have not necessarily left the seeker identity. They are still being a 'somebody' who is living in a cave wanting freedom. What are those circumstances which make a 'somebody' out of us? And now, are they also not another set of appearances? So right now when we say, 'Okay, but this seems so...' Fear means that there is a 'somebody.' I feel like I am somebody when this happens. Otherwise, you cannot feel it. It will continue to feel meaningless as an appearance unless I become a 'somebody' first.

This is what I want to ask. Why it feels so? With others it feels very unreal to me now, nothing, but only this one. This is the nature of our strongest attachment. We make a 'somebody' out of us. What you ask us to let go... I mean, to have this attachment and then... so it's still okay to suffer like that?

Yes, because if that comes with just provoking...

Yes, because I can tell you why. I don't tell you also to let it go because I am attached to my children. It's like the Gandhiji example. How can I preach something to you unless I am over it myself? If somebody comes and threatens my daughter, something reacts from here. It will be personal. So I see that it's not something which is just... it's not okay to just let go of your attachment to your children. It doesn't happen. See, I am not forcing it to happen. Just, hypothetically, if it happens, but still... I mean, I can react to that. Every action can be there for that too.

Yes, it is impossible to be attached to something—not impossible, but most unlikely for us to be attached to something and the reaction not coming when that something is threatened.

It's not a stranger's father. My brother is not an outsider, you know? And knowing what his mental condition is, I can't even really, you know, react in a really bad way. I can't do that because I'm not him. See, there's no difference between her and me. It's just that then all the world knows we are good, that's all, that's all. So now, unfortunately, he's finished the treatment, but at times he behaves... not every time, sometimes these things come up like that. And then suddenly he starts to enjoy... he tries to, not knowingly does it, but unknowingly it happens. And then somehow it drops off. And then that's the only reason I'm still alone.

The best you can do in this circumstance is to make sure you are okay, and just to be with her.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. No, even otherwise, she also doesn't leave me when he's there. She just sticks to me. I think this is something which I want to ask, how it's best not to be in denial.

Oh, it would be much worse if I were to tell you now, 'You stop being at home.' I can't. That is making a projection of what an enlightened being must be like. And on some days when I will be there, I create so much dichotomy and distress within you. This sense of motherly attachment, which is the projection of being an enlightened person, can create so much trouble. It's not required.

It won't come to our mind. And the only thing what happens is that in that moment, maybe this mind brings it like, 'You shouldn't be reacting, just witness. He will not even touch you.' Then this one more thing which came up, but I'm not able to recall. In that moment, the way the mind throws up is... I'm not even now, what to say, buying the thoughts. I know the fearful thoughts the mind is throwing up, but I don't know what I want to say. I was just chanting in that moment when I was doing that, just to make sure that nothing happens. Yeah, that's something. There is a fear that something might happen, you know? He might hit you or some... these thoughts come. Although it may not happen, but these thoughts come. Or 'I should go back now, stay here,' something like that. I don't know what I want. Doesn't make sense what I'm talking, sorry. I was just chanting 'Yogi Ramsuratkumar' for some reason. It came up and it could help. It helped me so much that day. Right now it doesn't make any sense to speak about that to you. Maybe I was expecting that I should get over this attachment also or something.

If that is meant to happen, it will happen on its own. But it doesn't have to happen. It doesn't get in the way of your freedom. Because it's very natural. Even in a young child, after maybe two or three weeks, it is automatically attached to the mother. So if you call that child egoistic, it's a very primal, very basic attachment.

Yeah, maybe because there is an expectation that nothing... like if I am unattached or something, then all these... whatever extra, it's because it's my own projection. That's what I'm seeing now. Even if my brother is reacting that way, it's my own shadow or something.

Please don't take on that blame on yourself, okay? Because maybe this is very popular in this, you know, ever since these manifestation, visualization, and 'The Secret' type of things came out. It is popular to say things like, 'Oh, it must be some internal pattern which is coming outside.' Don't fall into that because there's too much guilt and blame associated with all this. It's just another appearance.

So that's what this part... this is what I was trying to say. Probably that mind is making these kind of things, the outside manifestation. And then if I am not touched or not attached to any of these appearances, then nothing can touch me or my daughter, you know, something like that.

So don't even buy this. Well, okay, this is what I was trying to tell you. Okay, so this is also a thought, but it's a very strong and very subtle one which you can't really know that it's a thought.

Yeah, I think probably I was buying this. Okay, so I can't do anything. Sometimes life puts us in this situation. Because I have to be honest, because the rest of us listening to you might be saying, 'Just take her away from there,' you see. But you know your circumstances better than the rest of us. So you can see, 'Okay, he's my brother, he's my father, mother.' These situations are there, and this is something that I really cannot do. And I trust you that you're making the right call. It's completely fine. So you have to just check and see that this is how it is. Some of the seven days I'm always with her, she'll be fine. It's okay. You always, always tell us, Father, 'My presence is with you.' I know my presence can be trusted because it's your own presence too. That presence which is your own, it can never leave you. I don't know any of these things because last time I came and have not been able to attend online or come here. I don't know anything about that. I've been very busy. So life is taking me in a very different way, which is okay. I'm not suffering or anything, I'm just going with what is.

See, I've usually also seen this, that those who live overseas are able to attend satsang a lot more when they are overseas. And then they come and their families are here and things are here, then they are not able to attend as much. It's very good you are talking with us.

I cannot leave you no matter what, because the mind is going... it's taking you as a weakness. It wants to call you, 'Don't come, don't come regularly, so you forget, you stop.' I know, but I am always with you because we don't have anyone else. Rather, I can only trust you. I only feel safe in your presence. I cannot leave you. You are always with me. You are talking to me. But the way I come was not... it is not realized to me sometimes because I know sometimes these kind of things come. But in heart, I always feel heart is much better than being in person. At least I was there regularly. Thank you so much for everything, Father. Thank you.

So welcome. Already, yes. You, the basket... the long pranam. Okay, we want to put the last... could also end into the basket. I'm not seeing the basket. It's the fear.

Yeah, fear can be put in the basket because we came to this beautiful point the other day that you saw the perceiving is untouched even with this fear or anything. And this perceiving is here and you came to this point of seeing. So now the appearances will come back and say, 'But what about me? But what about fear? But what about this contraction? What about these things?' Yes, so these are the tricks of the mind. It comes and says, 'But this is happening, this contraction, this fear. What do I do about this?' Just throw it in the basket. I'm disappearing.

Yes, so it's okay. You are discovering... but I didn't know if it was wrong, if it is my madness. You are discovering that you have never been an appearance. Can we move this engine? We move a little bit. So it's okay. Sometimes it's very beautiful, but I'm not feeling so... they're not so alive, but not so dead. The body is burning sometimes. It seems I'm feeling mixed with the environment, and you can see already a beautiful bit. So as we go through this process of throwing everything, throwing everything, what can you not throw? If you say we throw everything, what is it that can't be thrown? Can you throw yourself? Throw yourself into the basket? No. Not beautiful theories about boundaries, history of how I will be, what will be the reference. Just plus yes and practical things. I have so few abilities with practical things. How are we to be? So then, not others are you. You see already, 'I'm not too good at this practical thing.' Then nothing to worry about. Difficult to be aware. So you think officially I cannot be entered. What he also... what is solving? So I'm so happy that you perceive me so good. It's about stress sometimes. It's difficult, and I was trying to escape to come here and I went through it. Scanning the memory about the love of my father. Suppose that satsang was an e-commerce site. If satsang was an e-commerce site, say put the outside appearances into the cart. Put the body into the cart. Put the thoughts, emotions into the cart. Put even the sense that 'I exist, I am' into the cart. Now what is left? Everything is gone into the cart. What is left?

I'm so happy that you perceive me so good. It's about stress sometimes; it's difficult. And I was trying to escape to come here and I went through it, scanning the memory about the love of my father.

Suppose that satsang was an e-commerce site. If we say, put the outside appearances into the cart. Put the body into the cart. Put the thoughts, emotions into the cart. Put even the sense that 'I exist, I am' into the cart. Now, what is left? Everything is gone into the cart. Whoa, what is left? Is that which is left—can we find that one to put it into the cart? Something is coming in the substance of her son. Try scanning their choice also into the cart. Whatever we can find can go into the cart. Whatever has been located, into the cart. Can we locate ourselves? All feeling, sensation, all these appearances, sublime experiences—everything that is located, put it into the cart. Have you gone in, or you're still here?

Yes, but once you disappear, that means you are no longer in appearance. Are you still here or no? Without boundaries, yes. It's how I will end it. It makes me feel afraid of those ones. Also without any attributes, qualities, anything. No color, no shape, no form. Not within time, not within this space. Something... what is the solution to fear?

Put fear also in the cart. Whatever you find, you put it in the cart. Because that which is claiming to want to find it is actually trying to distract you from it. Yes, right. Whatever you can find, put it in the cart. Put it in the basket. What is left? Have you also gone in the basket? It's a very simplistic example, but it's very powerful because you can take every phenomenal appearance and keep it aside, keep it aside, keep it aside. What is left? You are still here as what?

Who thinks this is some la-la land type example and it's not really helping? You can say, you can be honest. At what stage do you leave? Let me move this thing so that I want to speak to everyone about this. At what stage do you leave? Have you left when the outer appearances stop? You say, put it in the basket, put it in the cup, in the cart, or you say they stopped. Have you left because outer appearances just stopped? Are you still here at all? Stay here now. You start experiencing the sensations from your own body. You cannot sense that your own body is here, you cannot see it, and now no sensations are also coming from your body. So your body seems to have gone. Are you still here or no?

All emotions, feelings, sensations also—you are not feeling anything of these. They are also gone. You are still here or no? No thoughts arising also. All thoughts are kept aside, not appearing. Thoughts also go on, but you are still here or no? In this place, no love, peace, joy—all are gone. But you are still here now. Even this sense that 'I am, I exist'—if it is gone, would that which witnesses even this not remain or no? Now, is this one not what you already are? Have you... do you have to become this one? Is it effortless to remain as this awareness? Have you ever been anything but this, actually? Can you ever become now any of this appearance? To become something which is just appearing—show me if you succeeded.

If you and all things are gone, is the awareness of them also gone? Can there be anything without the awareness of it? Can we truly report on the existence of that which we are not aware of? There must at least be an imagined idea of it for us to be able to see that it exists. There must be at least a mental concept of it to say that it exists without me being aware of it. This knowingness, this awareness, this isness is unchanging, unborn, undying, in front of which, made up of which, this entire phenomenal play happens. The birth of the universe and the dissolution. So if this entire universe was to be put in the basket or to be burned, this awareness would remain, the undying witness here.

You're getting used to being boundary-less now because the Being is coming to the recognition of That from which it arises. Because the Absolute is the unchanging, it does not have state, does not have delusion or recognition. It's dynamically... the dynamic aspect called consciousness, it is playing like this. Playing as if it is forgetting what it is and playing as if it is remembering or recognizing what it is. Clear consciousness, God's presence, absence, even ultimately awareness and awareness knowing, not knowing—none of these is ultimately the true definition of the Absolute. Not even the Absolute or not Absolute. It's okay, then we have to use terms in this plane and therefore terms like awareness or knowingness of the pure witnessing are beautiful pointers.

Let's make this action. Put in the cart is my cart action. To speak in the mic—the mic is not in the cart. My mind stopped, just not necessary. And in this environment of satsang, it's very easy to let it happen. Outside it's more difficult because society... I must manage some things. Not a lot, because it happens when I went up this morning. Oh okay, it was not this. You feel so strong. I also good to be a neo. Okay, I'll come out for my pleasure. Can I come up? You got my good wishes. Hello. Can you give me a sign? Okay, it's a little... I don't know, it's not so key here. So that's why, mmm, yeah. It's exactly what you spoke about, right? What I have to... I don't know what I just... yes, I must.

I want to look together with you. Just exactly about what you just spoke about and what is here. It's just all the time witnessing. Yeah, what I am is all the time witnessing. Everything is just really the experience. It's so very different from what was ever before. In a way, it is this all the time awareness is here. And what something gets seemingly confused with these terms... but the experience is not about the terms, of course. But you know that when the terms are used, consciousness and awareness, it seems that the terms are separate, but it's not like that. In the experience, there's no separation here. That's all the time awareness. It's just all the time. And everything is just arising in me. Just everything.

Okay, let's do one thing. You're wanting... happy you can do something. Yes. Suppose that we've never learned any terms, nor definition, or no language has been heard. You don't know if awareness or consciousness, nothing. It is looking at a direct experience of what is. And we are finding that looking at this outer world, but the outer world is not looking at me. Looking at my feelings, emotions, sensations in the body—these are not looking at me. Looking at my thoughts and what they are saying—these thoughts are not looking at me. Then there is the sense that 'I am' looking at that, 'I exist,' but this sense is not looking at me. And now I want to look at myself. That is all that we are doing here.

They say, 'I've been looking at all these appearances which are coming and going, but I want to look at myself now. Who am I?' That is the point of the question, isn't it? So I just want to look at myself. Who am I who has been looking at all of this and yet has not looked at himself seemingly? What do you find? That only this looking has been here as myself. But the funny thing is, it is not the looking which has forgotten this. The looking has been looking all the time. The looking has not forgotten this. The looking is looking. Nothing in... does the looking not even remembering, forgetting, memory, all of this—nothing is touching this looking. It is just looking.

Whatever in the entire play of something happening and not happening, nothing ever happened to the looking. Therefore, the looking was never deluded. The looking did not need the term 'looking.' We're just looking, isn't it? Okay, if there's looking, so nothing happened to looking, then what is this whole thing about? Whole thing is about the sense that 'I exist' came out. And this sense that 'I exist' came up and then it started to say 'I exist' as if I am Ananta or am Nithya or whatever our names have been since I account. But now that I have to stop now, exactly that point.

You know that it's less than that here. Less than Nithya. It's less. What is it? This existence is less. It's empty. It's just silent.

Yes, yes. But this existence is what I'm saying, that 'I exist.' The sense that 'I exist' is something less than that. There's existence. Yeah, there's existence. And in this existence, this appearance... appearances like body, like seeming Nithya, Ananta arising. Yes. But if it is not the sense that 'I exist,' then what would it matter to us if it were just an existence like a TV show and there was no sense that 'I exist'? Then how would it matter?

Somehow I don't understand what you mean. What I understood from what you said is that there is only the sense of existence. There is no 'I' which exists. There is only the sense of existence, but it is not my sense of existence. It is not 'I' which is existing, isn't it? Is what you're saying?

So if it is not 'I' which is existing, then can it be seen that this existence is what is coming up? Then there is no scope for any delusion, any confusion, no pretending to be anything at all. If this itself is the starting point, that only existence is appearing, then there is no scope for any delusion, isn't it? Any play as if it is something, as if I am something.

I don't know what scope means, but the word possibility of any delusion doesn't exist because there is no attaching with the 'I' anyway.

Yeah, yeah. When we come to satsang the first time, there is the sense that 'I am stuck in this, I want freedom, I'm tired of this life of a person.' So unless there is what they started, the sense that 'I am,' then we cannot say 'I am like this and I am not getting it, I got it, I want freedom, I'm tired of this.' All of this would come from where? And this is not there. This is not there. 'I am this, that' or it's just being for you. I'm not saying to you now, but I'm saying that for those who come into satsang, that's how we start, isn't it? Yes, that's how we start.

So therefore there is this possibility for us to play like this: that 'I am stuck, I am a seeker, I want freedom.' All of this only when we start seeing... only when we start seeing that all of this is appearing in front of me and I am just dancing, and I am this untouched witnessing of all of this, does it become clear that actually I am not an active participant in this at all. So when we see well, and this recognition is happening to who? You say that 'I had this recognition,' but it is not the looking which had the recognition. Not happening. So the looking, awareness, is not coming to the recognition of awareness. Awareness always recognized that it is awareness. In fact, the term itself, 'recognized' or 'not recognized,' does not apply to awareness.

Yeah, so it is this existing that you say or I say 'I am,' or using this existence that is coming to the recognition that it comes from and is made up of this awareness. Crystal powerful. And nothing else is here. There is only this looking and there is only the sense of existing. Yes, only this. Yeah, yeah. So only this 'I am.' Yes, yes. Very good. So this looking remains unchanged whether there is sense of existing or not. Whether there is sleep, where there is no existing, even the sense of existence is not there, or there is waking state where the sense of existence wakes up—this looking remains unchanged.

Yes, it's just always there. Just this is a direct experience. Not some imagined concept, idea. Easily. Like, I woke up at 7:30, 6:30. What is happening? The sense of existence goes and the sense of existence comes.

Yeah. Now, only in the sense of the existence is there, we can say that 'I am confused about what I am.' I was confusing myself to be a person, now I am recognizing the truth. What about in sleep? We are not recognizing or forgetting anything, and yet the looking is there. So now this recognizing is the one recognizing that the self of a sense of existence itself is made up of this looking itself, playing as if it is the sense of existence. Yes, yes. Very good. Now, now I can say that not even the looking is... I am telling you...

In the sense of the existence is there, we can say that I am confused about what I am. I was confusing, I said, to be a person; now I am recognizing the truth. What? In sleep we are not recognizing or forgetting anything, and yet the looking is there. So now this recognizing is the one recognizing that the self of a sense of existence itself is made up of this looking itself, displaying as if it is the sense of existence.

Yes, yes. Very good. Now, now I can say that not even the looking is. I am telling you that not even the looking is. Can you look and confirm this? You cannot. You cannot. You can only presume it because I am saying it. Because either it must be looked at and seen, or it must be just a mental concept, you see. So if there is a looking of it and I have found that there is something beyond the looking, then already there must be looking to see that which is beyond looking. But if it is just an idea that there is a pot of gold which is there beyond awareness, it is just an idea. And everyone is welcome to their ideas, but I cannot certify it to be my direct experience. But I'm open to looking.

Ananta, may I ask you something about the looking? Yes, I didn't know a last name appears then. When you were talking about looking, I was experiencing the impersonal looking, and then what came was the concept of being self-conscious, as if somebody is looking at me and judging and evaluating, which is a familiar feeling. I just wanted to check in with you guys. Let me come to your... okay, okay, thank you.

No, I'm not done now. Which part is a little confusing or sticky or something? We can look at that together. Actually, there is nothing sticky, really sticky. Okay, are we agreed on this: that either it must be looked at or it must be seen? But I'm not talking about the phenomenal thing, you know this. So I'm not specifying it for you because we promised not to use the word awareness, or not using... I'm still using 'looking.' So we must be looking at it, we must have seen it in this way, or it must just be a concept. Can it be a third thing besides these two?

Now just looking, just just looking.

Yes, I'm saying that whatever we can see, either it must come from this piece of looking and having been seen, or it just must be a mental concept. Can it be a third thing?

No, no.

Only... yes. If you clear it can only be one of these two, then we must be able to see that for us to say anything about the truth, there must be the looking of it and the seeing of it. The truth to the looking itself. Because if it is prior to looking, then if there is no looking at it, then it must be only conceptual. I don't know if I got that.

That's right. That means... but yeah, looking is just this looking. There's no concept of looking. It's an experience like looking. It's not even experienced, it's just... and in this looking, existence arises. The pure form of existence. This is... but this is not it. These are not two things.

Yes, in... yes. And that's it. I mean, that's that's the end. What? For the beginning or whatever. I mean, that is where it's at, you see. And yet, if you were not to talk of them as if you were to just speak as if the sense of existence never arose, then what are we doing? There is nothing to speak, actually.

Exactly, nothing to speak. No. All this is happening in it, out... we are happening at this in, in, in it for... yeah, it's just... yeah. And all the little stuff, empty. I mean, you know, there's no meaning to it, or just empty. And yet, in a way, happening.

Yes, if that makes sense. Yes, yes, completely. And it's so very simple. I mean, it's very... the experience of what we are talking about is much easier and simpler than the talking about it, if that makes sense. But you know, it's the most effortless. I don't know what it is to be the end. Yes. So the recognition of this is prior to time, actually. Cannot even say it takes time because it is prior to time. The recognition and being itself, consciousness itself, is having that 'I must be made up of' whereas 'I must come from awareness' is prior to... does not need time. Time and space come from being, for existence. So this means no time. This recognition is here.

But there is a... to this, there's a second part of this which I don't know whether right now you'll agree with or not, but I have to say it because I am... just because the recognition happens doesn't mean necessarily... it can mean sometimes, rarely actually, that this sense of existence thought about itself. Okay? The recognition always happens just like this, prior to time. It is always present. And yet the sense of existence in this steamed up many ideas about itself. And just because the recognition happened, all ideas don't necessarily have to have been dropped because of that. Many, many, many can go. Most can go also. We can say for sometimes, for some, it could be and all have gone.

Is it clear? What it is seen in this play of existence is that existence still continues to hold on to some ideas about itself even after recognizing itself to be made up of this no-thing. And that is why we say that satsang is useful to come over and over in this play of existence, so the existence continues to drop all ideas that it had about itself. Maybe through constant and repetitive looking it can happen; maybe just being in the energy field of satsang it can happen, you see. But there is no dichotomy in this. Once it is seen that only the looking is, and this is recognized by this sense of existence, even then you might find that it still pretends as if it is something. It is something. And the dropping of these ideas that it is something and just remaining as just existence itself is what is happening at satsang.

Yes, exactly. Actually, the felt... oh, really. Thank you, thank you, thank you, my dear.

So Lucia can come and then Sumit also said she wanted to come, so she can come after Lucia. Welcome, you.

Thank you, Ananta. But Maharaj, I don't love you. Thank you. Make the resolve to go home. So good. You don't know? Yes, I don't recall. No, no, no. You sent us on private here. I wasn't seeing mine. I'll be here this... I, now that you mentioned, I recall reading some message like that. The song isn't the recording all over. Sam, you can take the Magnum. I don't know, I am believing on it so much nonsense. Okay, every tire, that's it. And there's nothing to say. Come on top and that's all. Yes, I do. Please come. Thank you, thank you.

Well, you were talking with me too at the looking. I experienced the looking or the seeing, whatever you want to call it, and everything in it. And then came the looking right about here at me. When you said nothing, nothing is looking back at us, we're looking at the thoughts with the start, so I'm looking back at us and we're looking at everything and nothing's looking back at us. But suddenly something was looking back at me and there was a sense of self-consciousness, which is a very familiar feeling for the person. So I wondered if you could comment on the difference between that self-consciousness and the pure looking from the beginning.

You say that I could see that there was a looking. Let's look at that now. If there was seeing of the look, then where seeing is, is it separate from the looking yourself?

It appears to be several, yes.

So then that would... you see that look, that seeming looking which is also seen, it is not what we are talking about. Who sees even that?

It's the being. The one that doesn't have a name. Being. It's a nonsense. It's nominal being. It just be is the... what you call awareness, I guess. I was calling just the 'is' the being.

So is this direct experience now?

Yes, uh-huh.

So let me see. Are you aware now? Are there two awarenesses?

No, now there's one. It's just... yeah, there's one awareness now. This is one awareness. Mm-hmm.

Yes. Now what can be looking back?

I don't know what can be, but suddenly the sense of something looking... the... would be the majesty. It is saying yes, it can itself... it's not looking at its seeing it and feeling it. Mind. Okay, it can play these kind of sensations. Self-conscious. It can give you this visual or something looking back or something seconds or something looking back. But even in this, even of this, when it remains untouched... if I stay over here or and not go over to that one, it is here and there is just this one.

Yes. And even putting... even if attention to the other appearance, I'm sure what happens to awareness? In reality, nothing happens to it. It's still here.

Yes.

And is there any way that you can separate yourself from it? It becomes other than awareness?

Not really. Sometimes I... there was a thinking that I am, but no, not from this perspective.

So in reality, nothing happens to awareness even if there is deep identification with anything that is appearing, you see. And the best part about this is that once this is seen, then the ability to be pre-identified also gets reduced more and more. Thank goodness.

Either. Thank you.

Now to see that awareness remains untouched irrespective of identity, actually it's very helpful to dissolve identity because then we are not fearing the identity also so much.

Uh-huh. Yeah, there was some fear that came up with the self-consciousness, you know, it's being judged from the outside. It's a, you know, having been judged by parents and whoever, whatever, right? And having that eye pointed at me like I'm being watched and judged. I'm being evaluated, criticized, neck.

Yes. So this sense, the self-image, is very primal to the identity. So any of you... is it... we say self-image, but is it only self-image? No, it's just an idea. It is a projection. It isn't real because actually the Self can have no image. It is non-phenomenal, like you said. And very... what you also to notice that if we no longer believing our own thoughts, then what? Let me leave the thoughts of others? They also thoughts same way. It is actually ridiculous, really. If I don't believe my own thoughts, why would I believe somebody else's?

Presence where... think about how lately I'm having a very difficult time talking to some of my friends. One or two that are very spiritually focused and they're sort of tracking with me somehow, but there's other ones that I'm like, I'm not even calling them back. I don't know what to say to them, you know. Like, you know, the spiritual ones, it will not be so easy to communicate this what you are discovering now. And there must be no sense of rush sharing about Kabir because he has the most spiritually inclined one somehow don't get to this usually when we are talking about ourselves being the non-phenomenal awareness. Yeah, they don't have a clue. Yeah, yeah. I haven't like saying, well, I'm spending at least three days a week in satsang.

The table lecturer superior and some of our friends also and told them actually have any spiritual discussions with every... no, it sounds funny, I know why. Because it... I noticed that in the spiritual discussions itself, a lot of concepts were being shared and a lot of concepts were being picked up. And more importantly, it became like group checking: where am I today? What's happening? So this must be happening, you know, like this. So it is writing our report cards over and over in a group for buying the projections which others might have about us. That was mine, but also report cards which others are giving us. Having some conversations also where it was shared language that I've become so used to taking a report card from this friend of mine, there it builds, becomes like a habit. And I said that we must only take advice or follow guidance from those who themselves are free from suffering first. Yeah, when it is accessible. Once you come to satsang to be here, a free source of things, then we must not take advice or guidance, spiritual guidance, from those who themselves are not yet free from this sense of suffering. When it exists, a perpetuation is taking the checkered identity.

But most people are suffering.

Exactly. I am noticing I was like, yes, what... why would I be treated by those who themselves are suffering? Like I need a separate identity just just to talk about... well, I'm doing this, you know, if they say, well, what are you doing? I...

You come to satsang to be here. If there are free sources of things, then we must not take advice or guidance—spiritual guidance—from those who themselves are not yet free from this sense of suffering. When it exists, a perpetuation is taking the checkered identity.

But most people are suffering exactly. I am noticing I was like, yes, what? To be treated by those who themselves are suffering? Like, I need a separate identity just to talk about... well, I'm doing this, you know. If they say, 'Well, what are you doing?' I have to talk about other things besides this, which has become so much a part of my life lately. I have to think about, okay, let's say that my work stuff, and I've got a performance in two weeks. Okay, I could... I have to remember what I'm doing sort of on the outside, you know, just to have something to talk about. And there's more trust now for what is appearing in the moment, even if it is silence and you're not responding. Oh, really, your friends? Then they will give you that space to respond or not. Yeah, and there's a lot more silence now. Yeah, and it's wonderful, wonderful. Sounds beautiful, silence. Thank you.

Uh-huh. Thank you. Thank you.

So, Father, can I go up now a little bit? I am trying to be here with you right now, but it does seem like something is getting heavier and heavier. Everything here is like a big iron helmet, literally.

Okay, so do one thing. Do the opposite. Just keep sitting on that chair and try to leave. Don't try to be here; just try to leave instead. Let's see what can leave. Don't be here. You stay here, the idea goes out. Because then you said, 'I'm trying hard to be here.' You are not talking about necessarily just sitting on the chair; you're talking about something like attention or something like this. So leave everything free. Let it go.

Okay. You actually called me to be at... and I was in the middle of a match with my kids, or my daughter. You would only hear these cricket fans hearing a thing. I think just calling you, Father, with good intentions, I kind of started crying. What you need then... and something you've settled. But Father, what is coming up right now is the... I don't know if it's a question because of this thing that there's this feeling of holding on to some way of existence again. Last week it was like, as opposed, no existence. And yesterday, the mindless punching with its full might from all directions, and holding onto the space of a mother. And you know why? And it was funny because it didn't even seem that something was there, but it was like a fight to exist in some form. And also not just this, but also what you have was like the body, that I'm not feeling well and completely drained, tired. And so maybe I will check with you, is it some possible... this identity crisis or a system, a double identity of the attachment or the ego again? Because it's getting confusing, sticky. In my head, full of brain yesterday was about to like, literally, you know, burst. I was screaming. I was out of the water and literally had a fight with my husband. And it was funny, with an official... I'm using here, never know. It's also funny. It's like you were a ninja or something. Yeah, it is very well... what do my own body, whatever the defense, Father. And I need to... are there for job, you know, through existence. And so what of stuff came out through that, like any emotion, so many beliefs about my own self-attachment. But right now when you were talking to a partner and I was just thinking that, you know, telling her keep the mother identity and mother attachment, and I'm like, but the moment I put myself there to really keep it, it just gives me such a hard time. So what of me is not working like that, that I keep any attachment here?

When you keep yourself that you have to lose this, then what happens is you... it's not feeling good in either way. So what I mean is just leave it alone. So what are these attacks that come out? And I've been trying for the last two days. I don't know what's happening. There is no reason why this is happening also, but is this so much a crying is happening? And this is just all that I can do is no inquiry, just a bread and butter... just applied to this, just absorb me here. And it is coming naturally because of... I told you, Father, you do not pick up the phone and I was redeemed because I didn't know where to ask you. It was just something, you know, just exploding. And right now even the entire satsang is a through, but it was just going to slowly understand it or pick out something what would concern me because it was just like added my... ears also getting blocked. And so there was like slight hearing and not hearing, then slight hearing and then just blind square space of non-existence.

This report card now you give in to me. Now forget about it. Then leave the house in my hands. Pity or something is a very sophisticated checker because usually the normal checker would say, 'Yeah, I didn't hear anything you said in satsang today.' But this checker was like, 'Yes, there were times where the ear was blocked and sometimes it was opening slightly.' It's all okay. Sign out of what God has given. No, no, what you... too much heaviness, too very, very, very mess.

Yeah, I borrow a comb and just went ahead and just feel like crying again right now.

Yeah, okay. Don't have to reduce anything. But is the heaviness affecting that which is looking at the heaviness?

It feels very tight.

Yes, but who are you? Is that already you? Find out if the one right now is one with the heaviness. And who knows? You don't make any mental picture of awareness. There is a knowing of heaviness. There is a seeing of the heaviness. Is the touching, this knowing that is the heaviness, touching you at all? So therefore it cannot be one in that way with it, not phenomenally. Who now? Where are you between these two? Are you something which is stuck between heaviness and knowing? Or are you one of them?

It seems rather it's on both sides.

You know, if you are on both sides, you would see which arm is on the heaviness and which arm is on the knowingness. Which leg is on which one? If you didn't have the idea 'heaviness' and that it should go away, then what is the trouble?

No, there is no trouble in that. If there is something light, there is no thing to need to push things away.

What is it? I'll say again. And the knowingness of everything is there all these years. But every time such an attack comes or something happens, rather need to push it away. Presently in this, that need is conditioning. Knowingness is not pushing anything away. Even Beingness is just being. It is our idea that this should not be there, I can push it away, or I should have more of it. Either way, that causes this make-believe suffering.

Yes, person better, better comfortable on expose because the operators so all understanding. So either it is like holding it in space and allowing it to be as like a shadow, or redirecting it and trying to push it away.

So don't paint any picture. Don't paint any picture because too much painting is happening though. So just step away from all this painting because it is this mental painting which takes us away from what is here right now. Even phenomenally. Phenomenally, what is here right now is so wonderful. You're here in the Hangout from beings from all over the world and we can talk to each other like this in spite of being so many miles away. All of this is so beautiful right now. But the mind is saying, 'But this and that and this happened.' So it just happened. There is no significant thing to look into it, right?

Because I think I'm holding on to a report. Is that okay? Do I need to look into something, or do we need to look into something?

No, you only need to look into what is here right now. Look into in the sense of who is the one that is looking in the first place. That is the most important looking. We never need to get into the nitty-gritties of the appearance. Once it is seen as an appearance, then it can be discarded. Because we can actually spend many lifetimes detecting these appearances, either outward or emotions or thoughts or feelings, all of these things. And that is really not helping. It's diet for me, not insane. The appearance of superior had a fight with her daughter and a fight with her husband and a fight with everyone in the world. That's it. You see it. Do not say, 'Why did this happen?' or 'Why am I sitting with the word emotion called greed? What am I still not seeing?' All of this register, what is just something... maybe is wishing that all this would stop happening. But even that is not the truth. It is happening because it is happening. You are the witnessing of it, which is untouched. Your thoughts are trying to make a somebody out of you now, and it feels really strong. Suddenly energy singing, it's picking up anything and everything like now. But it can never succeed in making somebody out of you. So I know that the truth will prevail. Even if it seems strong, it is never really strong. Really strong would mean that it can actually happen that you could become somebody. But you ask, you'll never... you never have in my life.

Yes.

So do you want to talk about that which can never happen, or that which always is? The mind says it can never happen dearly because it seems strong. The reality you are that haunting. Nobody has ever succeeded in becoming a somebody, and yet you have to give this mind some credit for trying over and over again. And this whenever it also over and over again now. Happy Monday to Friday, because when there's a break sometimes it feels like the conditioning has come back strongly. This happened, that happened, and I'm believing myself to be this. How can it be? Nothing needs to be done. Something must need to be fixed. All these ideas can be here. And then interesting, notice pruning away these ideas. And I am that, I can never become a person. All of this was nobody's, nothing ever happened really. For then, please, right now. Thank you.

Father, thank you, my dear. I like this modular chair that you sit on. Nobody used to have these chairs like I saw when it returns place, which also had some stones or diamonds, I don't know what they were. See, just have these chairs and the lamp. Thank you. Thank you, Father. Thank you.

Oh, okay. Rick, I wanted to come quickly. Cesar and I had a meeting at 1:00.

Hello, Father. That's the university of ideas. I don't have any question. I just... I just felt very strongly that I needed to come up and talk to you and just be in your direct presence. So that's all. No question.

Very happy you came up. All that the mind is ever trying is to convince you that you are somebody. Somebody who's either VP of something, or somebody who is not trying hard enough, or somebody who's full of pride, or somebody who's something. You can never be that somebody. And then when we see this, that I can never be this somebody, then we see that everything that is happening or happened was just another happening. There's nobody that did or did not do anything. So in one way, it is a great blessing here that I've never been very good with feeling guilt even before spirituality happened. There was you system, it just happened and I said I apologize, it's over. And why to hang on to things? It just happened when you could see there is just something that happened. So either guilt... I was a cool little body quickly redistributed voltage of the spectrum received implementing you. All of yourselves different with some are better feeling guilty, some were better feeling pride, killing be different, different things. But once you come to the seeing that all of this register happening, nothing really happened. Nobody here to do anything or not do anything in the first place. Maybe just watching the movie like this. Oh, this happens, oh, this happens. And so much life is showing us every day that actually anything can happen, and yet there can be great trust in it all, and to know that ultimately it is not vindictive, it is supportive. Therefore everything that is happening, even though it might feel horrendous at that point of time, you see that it gives you a blessing.

Of this register happening, nothing really happened. Nobody here to do anything or not do anything in the first place. Maybe just watching the movie like this: 'Oh, this happens. Oh, this happens.' And so much life is showing us every day that actually anything can happen, and yet there can be great trust in Ram, and to know that ultimately it is not vindictive; it is supportive. Therefore, everything that is happening, even though it might feel horrendous at that point of time, you see that it gives you a blessing. It creates some space, creates some openness, creates even some sense of fearlessness where anything can happen. Then we are not so fearful about what might happen.

Thank you, Father. Thank you so much.

Thank you, my dear. Thank you all so very much for joining in Satsang. Satguru Sri Moojiji ki Jai! Thank you, Claire, for moderating. Good to see you again. Thank you, my dear. Okay, we can end the broadcast now.