What in the Appearance Still Holds Some Power Over You? -3 July 2015

Yes, but is there something which is keeping tabs on this dropping or not dropping? Because this one who tracks the temperature of our freedom also must be thrown away.

Yes. Yes, it says more deepening is required, more clarity is required. It just began, it just started.

So, in this also, although it can sound like very humble, nice things to say, you still picked up the 'me', isn't it? That 'I have just started'. This means—because for this voice, it will always be almost there. Just a little more, a few more satsangs, one more retreat. This one is never satisfied. This one will always say, 'How can this awareness get any more complete?' Does it have states of completion? Even unassociated being—can we say it is at a certain level of consciousness? No, it's just being, you see.

So, when we speak of levels of consciousness or deepening and things, it's more about: what are the associations that it's still pretending to have? It's all about the pretense, actually. Not in reality. What are the pretenses it's still continuing to hold on to? And it happens that you keep coming to satsang and you find more and more of these concepts are dissolving. So, in that way, we can call it a deepening, you see. But in reality, for Consciousness, nothing has changed. Only the pretenses are being dropped. It's like we've been saying, isn't it? That you've been pretending to be a cat, and just by dropping the pretense, does it change something? No. It is just an idea that we have.

It's like, okay, I don't know if the fact that I'm going back to Sahaj is like, okay, if there's something that needs to happen, I'll be there. There's no problem. But even if it wasn't like that, perhaps before there would be this sense like, 'Okay, I have to make sure I find all of the identities that need to be dropped right now and make sure that when I'm with Father, I get all of that done.' And it doesn't feel like that. If there's identities that need to be dropped at some point, then let them show themselves and then be dropped. But it doesn't feel so much like my business, you know?

Yes, exactly. Just almost in—it's a joy to look. So, this is very good. So now, is there anything in the appearance which seems to still hold some power over you? And we can all question like this, contemplate like this: what in the appearance still seems to hold some power over us? So, sometimes it can be about freedom also. So, suppose Ananta says, 'No, you haven't got anything, anything at all. All that you're saying is just words.' Does it have some power over you? Now she's scared. What should I say? No, no, but truly we can look like this.

I would welcome that, Father. Even if that's said, good. Maybe I need it. Could be, could be. I don't know.

If I were to tell you now, you know nothing. Those are the most free words. And I don't believe a single word you say. I want to just provoke you in this way today because you are here.

I'm watching even this. It's almost more free to hear that, actually, than for you to tell me, 'Oh, your reports are so nice and you're so...' No, tell me I know nothing. It's really like, yeah, I would rather the other. It feels like in coming here to Bangalore, I don't know, something dropped somehow. Not needing to make sure I'm doing the right thing, you know? And instead, it's just moving from the floor. Maybe thoughts come about it, but it's okay. And it's so free, Father, because it really feels like anywhere. Let this be tested, you know? Let this be testing. But it feels—it's starting to really feel where before it was like I have to be in satsang, I have to be with Guru to be. But it's in meeting you, Father, and in being with you, it also has freed up that thing of just Guru's form is the Master, you know? It's there, so many well-beings, really, you know? So this fear of not being in the right place and stuff, yeah, instead to be with him, it's just the joy and a privilege and an honor, you know? Not like I need to be there because...

Because you're finding him inside, isn't it? This doesn't mean that—because many times the mind can pick this up and say, 'He's here, no, he's here, then why do I need to go somewhere?' Even that can come. So we have to keep smelling for this. Like you said very beautifully, that there can be no greater privilege, actually, to be in his presence, in his physical presence. The best place. But it's like if life moves me another way, yeah, maybe I wouldn't necessarily choose it, but I'll go.

And this one who goes or doesn't go, the one who is making these conclusions, is that a tangible one? Because another subtle form of taking our temperature becomes like this: that, you know, now I was here, then now I'm here, and now I come to this place which is so much more beautiful, and then like this. It's very—it's getting very subtle, isn't it? This guy which is still saying you were there, here, and you can share. I just—because I have to know today, since I don't know when we meet in person next.

So, it feels like—I feel like this thing can play in two ways somehow. So, like at some point it's just like a natural joy that just comes out and it's just in awe, actually, of what is taking place, you know? Just like... and sometimes it's a bit like...

It's good. You'll see that you'll find it extremely bothersome to make any conclusions about yourself, even about where you are now. Was that—now I'm this, this, and then this happens, this is okay or not okay? None of that, actually. Even then we play satsang this way. We are becoming empty of all concepts about me, my life, my story. And even to say, 'I used to need this and I don't need this now.' Who? You're emptying it out now. Super-stay emptying all of this. I don't want you to leave here as a free person. That would be the biggest disservice I've done to you and to the world. The world also does not need the burden of another free person.

It feels, Father, like it's just... just getting more, more quiet. If this is an evaluation or not... okay, I don't want to be correct either. Moment by moment, I don't know anything about anything.

Because you know, the mind can come and make very beautiful stories, especially because of the adventures you've been having, you know, from country to country. And then it's moving beautifully. See, life is performing so beautifully in my life. Then quickly it becomes 'my life' and it becomes 'my life' again. Then—so we are speaking very subtle concepts now, very subtle. And then this way it can then subtly hold on to something. 'The minute I let go, then my life became so beautiful.' It sounds so good. And we can say 'my life'. So this 'my' can again come up like this. It's just conversationally it's okay. If just conversationally we're sharing, we're just chatting. But if there is still belief about this 'my life', then we can look at this and throw it away because it is nobody's life. It is God's life, see? God's life is always beautiful. And any story, no matter how beautiful it is, takes away from the freshness of now. It's now. It's just now. Can't find the 'me', but it's perfect. Not even perfect, just it is what it is.

But I have to—okay, we have some requests on the YouTube. And so Anet says, 'Can you please talk about boredom today? Love you so much.' Yes, my dear, we did speak yesterday and I said remind me to talk about it, so thank you for the reminder. And then Priya says she wants to come up. Priya can come first. Thank you.

I just wanted to contemplate something with you. Can you hear me?

Yes, very well.

Okay. This—so it's very obvious to say this, but it's just what is. And it can only be ever this. It's all it can ever be. Yeah. And even when it seems like it's not this, that's all there can ever be. Yeah. It can't be any other way, has never been. And I know I've said this before, but it's always—it can't be any other way. And when there's like—when there seems like there's something else, like there's been very strong appearances in the last few days, not with me but with a close family member, and it's just—it can't be any... it's just... oh, it's really hard to even have the words for it. I don't know how you speak about it all the time.

Even, yeah, like even when it appears not to be this, it's still this. Very much so, very much so. And that is why it needs nothing. Because no matter what appears and disappears, this 'I' remains exactly what it always has been.

Yeah. And I can't even say that it's in awareness, yeah, because I don't even know about that. Yeah. I can't seem to pinpoint that. It's just this. Yeah. And there is no—and it's just always—there is no perfect word for this. No, no. And it's just—it just ends every—all concepts. And yet they can still exist within this. And at the moment there just seems to be a—just there's just wanting to contemplate this all the time. And it's the most—and that's just this as well.

Yes. And I see that they can never—nothing else can. It can't be anything else. Yes, well, because once it becomes clear, this, this, this. Whatever you might say or not say, only this. Whatever might appear or not appear, only this. Sleeping, yeah, dream, but only this. Yeah, they could be—it could be so many things. It can sometimes feel spiritual, sometimes it can be nothing, or sometimes confusing, or it just doesn't matter what it is.

And it's impossible to talk about because this is all it is. And it seems so simple and so obvious and yet so elusive. And yeah, and it's been really helping me to contemplate it because when the concept of 'No, it can't just be this' arises, I can see that, well, that's just this.

Yes, yes. Yeah, and it feels like it—sorry. It is not unnatural for this feeling that 'it can't be just this' to arise. It's not. Because we felt like we started climbing on a mountain 10 years ago, 15 years ago, some of you will say 30 years ago you started climbing this mountain, you see. And we wanted to get to the peak of this mountain, to the top. And some of you say, 'Oh, 20 years I've been climbing, climbing, climbing, I'm still not there, and you're calling me from there but I'm still not reaching.' So what's happening? What? And then it seems like you come to the discovery.

The feeling that it can't be just this arrives. It's not because we felt like we started climbing on a mountain 10 years ago, 15 years ago—some of you will say 30 years ago—you started climbing this mountain, you see. And we wanted to get to the peak of this mountain, to the top. And some of you say, 'Oh, 20 years I've been climbing, climbing, climbing; I'm still not there, and you're calling me from there, but I'm still not reaching.' So what's happening? And then it seems like you come to the discovery that I never really moved. I was already... the foot of the mountain and the base of the mountain are same. Yeah, yeah. Then it can come like this, that, 'Oh, but how can it just be like this? I've been at it for 20 years.' Yeah, sometimes these kind of things can also come. This is also part of the appearance of this play, isn't it? Yeah, it all just appears. Is this the feeling that it's not this appears? And it's totally fine.

Yes, yes. It just feels not fine, but it's that—that's just what it is. And the feeling that...

Isn't it? Sorry, say again.

The feeling of not fine is also that. It's also that. Everything is just this all the time. Not even all the time, it's just... yes, it's this. And it's just so great to contemplate it as well, and yet that's just this too. It's just... I could better turn off. I just sound like a record that's just got stuck, really.

I know. This sense of wonder which can come has always just been this all the... that's why we say, no, much ado about nothing, because always only... yet, yeah, yet in the play, when the arising of these who come and they say, 'Okay, can you tell me what this is about?' Usually, if they are fresh like this in this play and to say it's about nothing, then something is not ready to assimilate that. That's why we take different approaches. Different approaches arise just to bring this pointing to the nothingness itself. Yeah, and every approach is so perfect. And when I listen to different teachers, it's all the same. They're all trying to talk about this.

Yeah, because you now no longer see the dichotomy. Because very often what happens to the personal mind is it sees a dichotomy in everything. It's always this versus that, this versus that. It must be D or A; it must be this master or this master; this must be the truth or that must be the truth. But now you don't realize... you don't see the dichotomy. Everything is just this. Yeah, and it just doesn't matter what this is because it can't be any other way. And even if the person reacts to it—because you know, it's just like there, something like someone kicks a dog and you know there's a reaction here—that's just that. That's just what it is. Yes, there's no need to get rid of anything or change anything. And it's quite ordinary and yet sometimes not. But it's just so... it's just just so recognizable because it can't be any other way. It's always been this. It'll always be this. In fact, always, always. Yeah, within this...

Sorry, even the concept of eternity arises within this.

Oh yeah, yeah. Come. Yeah, so time cannot touch this, space cannot touch. No. Yeah, it's just always just... I don't know what this is. There is no 'I', there's just this. There's just this. Just the saying... I like this. Use the word 'I'; you can still use the word, but it no longer smells of the 'I'.

Yeah, yeah. Because it's so boring saying 'the apparent I'. Thank you, Father. Thank you so much, Father. I'll stop speaking now because I really do feel like I'm a stuck record.

No, it's very, very beautiful. Very. I love you so much.

Love you too, my love.

Jerome said, 'Father, do you mean that the move of the attention has to be seen also as it doesn't mean... doesn't mean anything?' What is always there, it is what it is. More dancing with whatever is perfect, always. So can you say that something exists without you being aware of it? You cannot say that something exists without us being aware of it. Even the imagination of something existing is our awareness of this imagination for us to be able to report on it. So this movement of attention without awareness, can it even exist? This movement there is... without awareness of attention, there can be no attention. So movement comes later, you see. So it is this awareness which is the light of this entire play, including Consciousness. Consciousness cannot exist without awareness. First there is the seeing; for the seeing there is a being. If there were just a being and no seeing, then what would it mean? Who would be aware that there is a being? So from awareness itself, with the creation of this dynamic aspect, the phenomenal aspect called being, and as the... of this being come all these forces: then attention, belief, other phenomenal forces. But all of it rests on you. Without you, there is nothing. All of this is about you. Even God is about you. Not even that you are God; God is here for you. But just not you personally.

So sometimes what can happen is that we can feel that 'nothing to do' is like a personal guidance or something. We take it also personally and you say that, 'Okay, I as a person must now not do anything' or 'I must do something.' But in Satsang, it's not personal guidance. Everything is just Consciousness having a monologue. There is nothing for us to pick up and say that 'I must do this' or 'I must not do this.' So even that you must become completely empty, it's not something that you can do personally. That emptiness is coming because it is seen that it is this Consciousness itself which associated with so many concepts, and now it is tiring of playing this game of concepts. So it is Consciousness which is clearing itself, emptying itself of all these concepts which seem to have been picked up along the way, you see. And because they have been picked up in the past and they have been nourished, then when they are throwing them away, then they can be accompanied by these feelings of fear, these feelings of 'what is going to happen'—these kind of things can come, you see. But we must become empty of all of this also. But who is there to do any of this? There is nobody, you see. So therefore I say in Satsang, although we keep saying that we will do this, you will become this, this is what you must do, it is truly not speaking to any of you individually, you see, or personally. And there is great rest in this. There's great rest in this.

Because if you were to speak metaphorically, we can say that it is Consciousness itself which is tired of carrying the burden of the person. Just speaking metaphorically, it is Consciousness itself which is tired of carrying the burden of the person. So who must be rid of the person? Can the person rid itself of itself? Just with this simple seeing that all of this is just a belief, belief in an idea. All of this has just been a belief in an idea of 'me' as a separate entity. And that's why we start looking for evidence of this 'me', because when you start looking for the evidence of this 'me', you find that there is no 'me' here. Then how long can we believe this idea? When every time we look for the evidence of the 'me' it is not found, it is impossible to truly believe it. So that's all that this is about. So therefore the vigilance which is there in Satsang is only for this smelling of a 'me'. Is there still a 'me' smelly somewhere? You see, the Consciousness is still saying, 'Out, out, out,' just looking for the smelly concepts which might still be there, although they might be very well-dressed sometimes. Might be very well-dressed sometimes and say, 'Yes, this is so beautiful.' No, even you out. Even this one out, out, out.

Because heaven for me... we paint a picture of heaven which is full of beautiful things, but I've seen in my own experiences that anything phenomenal, no matter how beautiful, it means nothing after a while. Sweetest music, the best food, the most beautiful scenery, you see, the most holy place also—after a while it just... when you go to Tiruvannamalai—I started saying so I should complete it—when you go to Tiruvannamalai and you see over there that you're in front of Arunachala and you're like melting, you know, you're just dissolving in front of... and then the people who live there, they're just so casual about it. They're just walking around doing their business, wondering what these guys are doing, you know? What is it? It can feel like this because ultimately even this is phenomenal. Even the most holy experience is phenomenal. So ultimately it's not even about this. So heaven for me is just empty. I know it sounds strange to say because we cannot tire of our no-thingness. We cannot tire of our emptiness. Beauty we tire of very fast because very quickly we contaminate it with our need, you see, or 'I got something beautiful and I must hold on to this.' Very quickly it is contaminated. Not even beauty, not even peace, not even joy, although these are the byproducts which come on their own.

So in Indian mythology, what happens is whenever something auspicious is happening, then they show these—like in TV series that we grew up with—they would have these devas that would appear in the sky and they would be throwing flowers and something auspicious is happening. So then love, peace, joy, these are like these devas, the deva energy who are coming to celebrate the auspiciousness of you. But imagine if someone is trying to chase these where they were looking. You see, it's not about any of this. It's just about this nothingness, emptiness, which you can do nothing about, and yet it just moves like this on its own. And anytime we invent 'me', it will only have some stupid commentary about this. You'll say, 'Yes, yes, I got it,' or say, 'No, no, I didn't get it.' Either of these is not it. You are it. You are it. That is why the root question always is: Who am I? Atma. You wanted to say something, my dear? You can say.

Yes, yes, yes. Namaste. Just when I thought I may come to expose, just my heart start beating faster. I don't know why. Like I would... I will say I don't know what, but it's nothing. And I was just observing and maybe it's a kind of fear just coming up and just was just observing. You asked, you said if there is still something that I think that has to happen or has not happened, and I don't see that. What is happening is already that, and it's even too much happening. I mean, all is changing. But what I see sometimes, not always, but for example this morning, you know, that thing of thoughts coming so much in the morning and there is nobody here who believes them, but just they still come. And there are thoughts about like a fear: 'If I lose this, if, if...' But only in the morning when they start. As you know, like now I ask myself, 'But why those thoughts are coming?' Because I'm not bothered with them, but they still come. They still come like something wants to really, I don't know, to make me scared, my own mind. But it's really strange. It's like, 'What will happen in the future?' You know, like it's not because I'm afraid, as I see, of future, but because there is no plan here. No plan at all, nothing, nothing. Just empty mind. And in the morning those thoughts come like, 'No, you can't live like that because what will happen when you will have 10 years more? What will happen with you?' You know? And then I see it's okay, okay, because what is 10 years after? Nothing, because it's always this. And then it's like something here starts speaking with that voice, that voice saying, 'What will happen?' And then something here like explaining, 'Oh, but don't worry, you know, everything will be okay.' And then when I get up, I say, 'My Lord, again that crazy mind.' You know? But it's like somewhere here is a fear of... is it possible to lose this state? Is it possible to lose it? And every time I see it's not possible, and even it's going deeper and more beautiful and better. And it seems sometimes like yesterday, whole day was so beautiful. When my sister came home after work, she said, 'What did you do? Are you bored here?' I said, 'I did nothing.' But you know, many things... how can I explain her what happened? I can't explain. And then we go to walk in the...

I know, but it's like somewhere here is a fear of: is it possible to lose this state? Is it possible to lose it? And every time I see it's not possible, and even it's going deeper and more beautiful and better. And it seems sometimes like yesterday, the whole day was so beautiful. When my sister came home after work, she said, 'What did you do? Are you bored here?' I said, 'I did nothing.' But you know, many things—how can I explain to her what happened? I can't explain. And then we go to walk in nature and I was so excited, and it seems like there is too much beauty everywhere, inside me, outside, in people. I see her daughter differently, like I see her for the first time. And her daughter asked me, 'What is happening to you?' And then I say to myself, 'Stop, stop, slow down, slow down.' You know, it's too much. And because it's too beautiful, my mind comes in the morning to say, 'You will lose it.' I don't know, it's just that.

Yeah. So if there's any belief that this is a state that you have found, then this fear can survive—that this is a new state that we have found, you see. But you know already that this is not a state. All states are coming and going in this, you see. Even those who don't know anything about this already are this, you see. So there is no way for you to lose this.

Yes, it's that what I saw also yesterday. Like, I'm again in love with life. I'm so excited every moment, even if I'm totally calm outside, inside is total silence. But inside, I can't explain. And it's really like I'm recognizing that I cannot lose this because it's what I am. And it seems like sometimes it's not too much, but there is no end to this beauty. There is no end to that. I don't know.

This is why sometimes I try to use the word 'wonder,' you see? That although it has been deprived of all personal meaning—whatever is appearing has been deprived of all personal meaning—yet every moment was full of so much wonder. So wonderful. But not even wonder. So I know how you struggle with the word; I can understand it.

And also a little bit of just a little bit of fear, because I don't want to, how to say, to hurt anybody with my state—not state, with this what's coming. And there is no problem in that. I don't express it outside, that's okay. I'm not anymore like before, a child that wants, you know... actually I feel as a child who wants to explode inside like, 'Wow!' But outside I feel it's okay. But still, sometimes here with my sister I feel maybe I'm too much, maybe. But it's not, it's okay, it's okay. But just still like settling down between what I feel inside and outside, just to have this balance that I would like, I think, to have. Maybe that is what is still like... I think I need this balance always. Maybe it's not needed, I don't know.

This one also you forget about. Because what is happening is that in your trying to not hurt, you might be hurting people. And what we try to avoid, that persists, you see. And it sort of manifests when we are trying to resist something inside; then sometimes it shows up in front of our eyes, which is also inside.

Yes. And sometimes it comes, this voice which is not mine, which is not mine. It's a voice from before, when I was a child and young girl. I was really very, very often in a good mood, very happy for nothing. And very often my mother—but some others also—would say, like, 'Slow down, slow down, slow down with your happiness, slow down.' And yesterday and this morning, like me with my sister, you know, like this, and this voice like saying, 'Oh no, no, no, no, no, no,' you know, like retreat back a little bit. And also the voice saying, 'You're crazy, you're crazy, you cannot be like this,' you know? But just coming and going. I think it's just a habit or mechanism from before, and from this, this fear is coming, I think. But it will leave me, it will leave me, I know.

Yeah. Then when we forget about balance, then we forget about both sides also. And we forget about both sides and the balance, then whatever is natural in that moment—whatever is natural in that moment—is allowed to arise, you see, with no concern about what other thoughts are coming up about any of this. So we are still talking about the neutrality. Because sometimes when you hear something like this, something wants to become reckless, you see? It wants to then become reckless and say... but not like that. Every moment just fresh, fresh.

Yes, it's actually all happening inside me. It doesn't matter about outside. It's all this is happening, all this speaking and everything inside me, everything, everything. It's just like... but I just let it come and let it go. And it's okay. Just sometimes I feel, 'Okay, now I said it all, I will not have anything more to expose.' And then when I come on the hangout, the moment you come and begin to speak, I already feel... and something inside me says, 'Are you just pretending that everything this is happening to you, that you have to say something? Maybe you are forcing it,' you know? But everything is just... it's nothing, it's nothing, it's nothing.

I'm very familiar with this voice which constantly will say, 'You just speak, just speaking, right?' Just even now. I shared with some of you earlier, isn't it, that before Satsang starts, inevitably this voice will come and say, 'What are you doing? What is this about?' Something it will say. And then you get used to it. It is just like a mosquito that, you know, it lives here. And every day as no power is given to it, the buzzing of the mosquito gets smaller and smaller.

Yes, yes, exactly. I never want to give you this impression that finger snap, over, mind gone.

Yes, yes. It's all that, but it's all okay, all okay. Because for many years I haven't heard these voices: 'You are fake, you are this, you are that.' You know, these voices seem to be new. But it's okay, it's okay. Many things I never thought about, many, many thoughts about myself—these or these—I never had. Now they are coming. That's strange. Now every sort of thoughts from every side. I said, 'But what is this? From where they are coming?' That's why Guruji said, no? He has the best examples for all of these symptoms. He says the mind calls all its cousins: 'You also come, you also come.' Thank you, Father. Thank you.

Jerome said, 'What is the right balance in response to what Atma was saying?' Now it seems to be enough balance as nothing is left as of now. That's the way I'm reading it; I'm not sure whether I read that correctly. Yes, even the balance—the concept of balance—is not required. Okay, there are some questions in the chat. Oh yes, we were to speak of boredom also. We were saying yesterday that many times this sense of boredom is like a combination of a little bit of lethargy, a little bit of dissatisfaction with something. But basically, boredom also is a resistance to what is, isn't it? Although it seems very harmless: 'I'm just bored.' Even kids will say, 'Oh, I'm just bored.' Maybe. But I've seen very much like this, that what starts off as boredom... you see, like we had these people who are coming and trying to disrupt the Satsang and things like this. I'm sure for most of them it would have started off as a boredom. 'I don't know what to do, it's so just meaningless.' It must seem like that the present moment is so meaningless, 'I have to add some spice to it or something, I need something.' So then what starts off as very seemingly harmless—just boredom—can then become very fertile grounds for very strong egoic tendencies. It can become very fertile ground because we open now to input from this mind. 'I'm so bored, what do I do?' The mind is saying, 'Go, go set that shop on fire.' You wonder about how it starts, you know, how these people who are arsonists and graffiti... it starts like this very much with this sense that if something is meaningless, and something is trying to find... even in this, like I said the other day, everybody is a hero of their movie in their mind. Nobody's the villain in their mind. So like this, that boredom is there and 'I'm going to bring some meaning to my life,' and very often this becomes an egoic adventure, a misguided adventure.

So qualitatively, energetically, it's a little bit different from the dispassion that we speak of. The dispassion that we speak of is the sense that the world seems to be losing its meaning for me. That's the dispassion of Ram, isn't it? So the world seems to be losing its meaning for me can seem like similar to this, but it's qualitatively different. When the world starts to seem meaningless, I don't have this feeling even to go and destroy something in the world or change something out there, you see? Then attention gets more and more inward-facing. If the world is meaningless, who am I? Am I also part of this world? What is my purpose? What am I doing here? So that is the auspicious dispassion. That is the auspicious dispassion. But this boredom can lead to a lot of trouble sometimes, and it is basically a resistance to what is. If there is wonder in every moment, if there is joy appearing, then we will not go around saying, 'I'm so bored.' And then when you see that this does not happen, then you can spend many hours just with yourself in silence. Nothing is needed. It doesn't mean you're avoiding something, but if nothing is available... if you're sitting in a dark room, you see, in the world, the world's idea of worst punishment is what? Solitary confinement. The world's idea of the worst punishment is to put you in solitary confinement. It's going to be dark, just... and many feel that they'll go crazy in this. But you tell a sadhu, 'You know, I'm going to put you in solitary confinement.' 'Oh, thank you, thank you! I've been looking for a cave. These caves are so dirty and there are snakes and monkeys. You're going to give me a cave, and every day you will give me food also? Wow!'

So it's just a question of perspective, isn't it? So if the mind stops bothering us, if you're comfortable like this, then solitary confinement—what does it mean? It sounds so beautiful to me. Sounds so beautiful to me. Ten years solitary, just sit in one dark room. Sounds very beautiful because you don't have this energetic boredom: 'What do I do? What do I do?' So like this, when it feels like, 'Oh, Satsang has become so boring,' then we must look into this tendency also together. And I see like this many times, I'll be sitting with Guruji and Satsang will be on, three hours are gone, something will be coming here: 'Okay, now we should start, now it's enough to stop.' Like this, you can see. But it's very good contemplation also like this. We use that even when the sense of boredom is coming; use this also sense to add fuel to your inquiry. Don't just let go of it as harmless. So just boredom... boredom can be very, very fertile space for ego.

And Joy had said, 'Nothing to say is beautiful, Father.' When you say nothing to say, it is complete. You're still reading the chat from the beginning. Joy says, 'So true, Father. Pick up the I/me without even noticing it. It's very subtle like this.' S says, 'Thank you for this subtle pointing. The truth in my seeing and feeling is confirmed. It is so helpful.' Google says, 'Thank you, Priya. I'm feeling exactly the same. Thank you so much for sharing.' It is just this. Said, 'Beloved Ananta Ji...' then in quotes, 'If I am very rude to you right now...' I was telling him, was it rude of me to say that? If I'm very rude to you right now, what will happen? If I say, 'You know nothing,' what? And she says, 'This is as helpful as if you are actually doing it, and joyfully the lesson is learned.' Yes, there can be attachment to this Guru's approval. We have big attachment. And I've seen like this here also. Everything else in the world is okay, but if Guruji tells me something... I like very much what she says, because many times when she starts speaking, she says, 'Let this be tested, let this...' So Chandra says, 'Deepest love and gratitude to you, to my heart. Do you hear me now?' Jerome says, 'Don't hear you anymore.' If you can hear me in the hangout, show me a thumbs up or something. Yeah. Yesterday someone who was here in the Satsang today, she wrote to me and said, 'You know, I realize that I'm using you as a crutch, and now I'm going to throw away even this.' Not you didn't...

Tell me something. I like very much what she says because many times when she starts speaking, she says, 'Let this be tested.' So Chitra says, 'Deepest love and gratitude to you.' Do you hear me now? Jerome says, 'Don't hear you anymore.' If you can hear me in the hangout, show me a thumbs up or something. Yeah.

Yesterday, someone who was here in the satsang wrote to me and said, 'You know, I realize that I'm using you as a crutch and now I'm going to throw away even this.' You didn't use the same words, I'm just paraphrasing, but 'I'm going to throw away even this crutch now. I want to know that I can do it myself, to be independent even of this crutch.' So what I feel to say is that before you lose this crutch, lose that 'I'. This can be a very subtle game. This can be very subtle. Sometimes one of the trump cards of the mind itself can be like this: 'Oh, you've been in satsang, you understood, you are intelligent, you are bright, so now why do you need... you discovered, no, you are that, you are that. Why do you need this crutch?' Oh, now this one is still the 'I', you see. So I told her that you please stay in satsang. I'm very happy that you can.

Tina says, 'The thought is coming sometimes and it says that awakening is possible only when I'm able to accept and be untouched by a disfigurement of my body and face.' Like this, there is no end to this one, you see. There is no end to this one because this one will say, 'Oh, Jesus walked on water, he touched water and it became wine.' So then we can say, 'Let's wait for that to happen.' So don't go with this voice. It is the texture; it'll always say 'next', you see. If somebody comes and says nothing will ever happen to your body, if they invent a new technology and say nothing will ever happen to your body, so forget about all of these fears, then the mind will say, 'You must then be able to accept something else.' It's never enough for the mind.

Tina says, 'Thank you, Ananta. This love for emptiness is here. Mind sometimes says this is a boring life.' Samir is here. Samir says, 'Can it have two different aspects: a being aspect and a clear seeing aspect? The feeling in body presence and not seeing all?'

So let's... okay, I haven't seen you in satsang before, so let's rewind to the basics that we speak about here. When we say that there is nothing, what we actually mean is that there is no phenomena, okay? And when do you know that there is no phenomena? In the sleep state. Yet you know that there is something called sleep state. You say, 'I went to sleep, I had very good sleep, I want to sleep.' So you are aware of the existence of something called sleep state even though there is nothing phenomenal from there to report. Therefore, there is an awareness that there is sleep and there is waking. That's why you're able to say that I woke up. That means there was another state in front and there was the sense that something woke up. So you can differentiate between sleep state and waking state, you see.

So in sleep state, there is no thing. So what happens when waking state comes? This awareness is untouched, unmoved, and is now aware of something called the waking state. So what is this waking state? You will find that what wakes up is the sense of 'I am'. The sense of being is not present in deep sleep; it is present now in waking state. So being is here. So I ask you: can you stop being now? Can you stop being now? You see, no. This presence, this being is here; it cannot be stopped. This being is just being. Then very simply I can ask you: who sees this? You see it, isn't it? Even being, you see. You see the same one that is aware of sleep state is aware of waking state, is aware of dream state. It is the same one which is aware of the content of these states. The presence or absence of being, the presence of the external world—all of it is seen by you.

This seeing is unchanging and unmoving. This being is appearing and dissolving. So this seeing is what we call awareness and this being is what we call Consciousness. So one of the mistakes that we make sometimes when we hear this is we confuse the seeing that I'm speaking of to be the seeing through the senses or the phenomenal seeing which is seen through the eyes of the senses. This is not the awareness that we are talking of. The awareness we are talking of is aware even of this phenomenal witnessing. That which is aware of what is seen through the eyes also, that is the seeing which I am talking about. So seeing and being, awareness and Consciousness. And it is not that the being is in the body, although it can be experienced like that. We can also say heart, you see, but this being is present irrespective of which body there is. So in what we call a dream state, there can be a different body. Your being was there first. The being is the same, the sense 'I am'. So we can contemplate whether being is in the body or body is in the being. It's a good contemplation too. Welcome to satsang.

Jerome says, 'I know that voice. It is getting smaller.' Cornelia said, 'That voice is barking here too.' Yes, yes. Yesterday or day before we were singing... the Guruji refers to this song, and Jerome said it's Jal. The Jal where the birds are flying in the sky if the dog is barking. This voice, let it be like this dog barking, and yet your being is flying unconcerned with what the mind is saying. Tina says, 'Only the person can be bored.' So Chitra says, 'When I don't want to say anything, satsang feels like bathing in a clear mountain stream. Let whatever has to be said also come from this space.' I know what you speak of. It seems like when some words have to come, I have to first take a personal identity. It can seem like that initially. You will find this space that this mouth just becomes an instrument for your own presence to speak, your own presence to speak.

Then Surendra said, 'Beloved Master, I'm waiting for my turn.' You can ask, my dear. I see some trolls are here, so we are blocking them, but after that you can speak. And Bhakti said, 'Beloved Father, if there is a report here right now, it is wordless. Nothing I can say, no words, no description, nothing. Simply enjoying to sit with you and rest in truth here. Must leave for work in a few minutes. Thank you, Father.' And you see, there's one 'Om'.

V says, 'Father, could you please speak for a moment about the difference between being religious and being spiritual? I think some walls of ignorance will be burnt with that.' I don't feel it's about that actually for these ones. You already shared, no? You already shared. I feel this is amazing satsang for all of us because it is very easy to keep saying, 'Oh, it's awareness and appearance, awareness and awareness is untouched by all appearance,' you see. And like this one says, 'Let this be tested.' So let it be tested. So let's use this for our own inquiry and see: why is it that this appearance still seems to hold some power? If it does, what power does it hold? It also teaches us how to be so grateful for the opportunities that we had, so grateful for this opportunity that we have. Satsang so beautifully from all over the world, all of us come. So none of this can be taken for granted. Just in this moment, all of us are here. So let's enjoy this moment completely. We never know what tomorrow might bring. And if there's a sense of attachment even to this form of satsang, then we can contemplate this also. I feel it is very, very beautiful satsang for all of us and a big thank you to the moderators. I know it can seem quite challenging, can seem... big, big gratitude to all of you. I'm so thankful for every moment, every moment I get to spend with each and every one of you. We look good.

Om Satguru Bhagavan Ji Ki Jai. Satguru Ji Ki Jai.