The Nature of Presence

So when we look at it, mostly we are saying, 'Okay, how many fingers? Five.' See, so you perceived a shape which is not itself inherently five, and then you use the mental mechanic to confirm that it is five. So you use both perception and the concept or the intellect to confirm that this is five. Then there is some part of knowledge which we only know conceptually, which is, for example, there is Mars, there is an ever-expanding universe. We only know conceptually because we've seen some Discovery Channel or National Geographic or something like that, or read some books. So we rely on conceptual knowledge for that.

Then there are some things which we just perceive and don't need to translate. So I don't need to—I perceive the straw, I don't need to say 'this is a straw.' I need to put it in the juice to drink from it; all of that, this is the perception, the intelligence is inherent. Now there is a greater knowledge than both of these which as humans we hardly rely on. So the first step in spirituality for most—not necessarily, but for most—has to be first a humility to accept that everything we think we know is not valid, and then deepening to a humility that actually nothing I think I know is valid. Because you cannot drink from the well and the river at the same time. We are very limited. So if you're drinking from the well of the head, then we cannot drink from the river of the heart. And as long as we are compelled towards it—and why I said humility is because many times it is our pride which makes us think that I know something here, and that blocks our true insight from the heart.

So what do you know? Suppose we were to say that the next two hours we'll spend only in the heart, how will that be? We will not know things conceptually. At least all our judgments, interpretations, knowledge which conveys to us that we know what is happening will only come in deep. Anytime something becomes clear in the heart, that is what we call an insight. So if you have an insight from the heart, you can convey that, and to convey that is satsang. What is the Master's job? Just to convey the insight which is appearing in the heart, which is clear in the heart. So what is clear to you intuitively and not mentally?

Okay, so let me probe you now. Let's go to the question that was asked: is this a waking state or a dream state? In your heart, what is the waking state? What is a waking state? What can happen to us sometimes is we may feel that from the heart what comes is that which comes instantly. See, without thinking, an answer just came. But that many times comes instinctively. So just slow down. In fact, do the reverse: just fully slow down. The good thing about the heart is it's not in a rush, and you can keep checking over and over again because it's so sweet to check in the heart. The heart is never in a rush. It will never say, you see, even the external form, the Master may say, 'You know, how many times are you going to ask this question?' The heart will never say that. So at least here so far it has not happened that my heart is asked and answered; it has not said that it may happen, we don't know. But that's why it's such a safe space, it's such a trusting space that we can go to it.

Let's fully dive into this, a question like this, and say: what do I know, whether this is waking state or is this a dream? Almost like a dream more and more. What is almost like a dream?

I'm sorry Father, this was something I was contemplating even yesterday. It feels like just an imagination, this whatever you're going through. It cannot be true.

In satsang, when we say contemplation, it is exactly this process that we defined just now, you see? So if you're contemplating like this, which means head empty and just waiting, just lightly carrying the question somewhere and then allowing it to sprout, many times the answer that comes can seem completely absurd. Many times in the sharing of satsang, some words have come from this mouth and I'm hearing them saying, 'I don't know what I'm saying.' Later when I hear them or contemplate them, I feel like, 'This is very nice, this is very helpful.' So that is the beauty of the guidance from the heart. And the beauty of this is that, firstly, true Atma Gyan is available only here. True self-knowledge is available only here. But whatever guidance is needed even in our so-called day-to-day life is also truly available only here.

So this is the beautiful thing: that there is the inner Satguru who can guide us towards the highest Self and also guide us moment to moment. Once we get used to having given up the pride of knowing something, in humility, in sheer humility when we are in its temple, then all guidance is also available to us in this way. So all questions about the nature of reality, the nature of knowledge itself, as well as how to live and what to do, is available only here. Here means in your heart; here means intuitively. So what is true, how can it be known, and how should I live? These answers are only available in this mode of knowledge which, strangely enough, all of us had forgotten, and it seems like the entirety of the human condition has forgotten.

So I think as you're directing us to go back into the heart, from the heart there's no change in the states. Heart is the one that knows. The heart knew all the things that appeared. Maybe afterwards mind says, 'Okay, my position is as the person, so for me I'm in this state or that state.' But this one who's saying that wasn't there in the other, you know, what we call that virtual state, because this one wasn't there. So for the one who knows, there's no change in state.

Yes. Now one important tip I want to give all of you is that the beauty of the heart is that in the insight from the heart, everything is ready-made. Everything is ready-made; we don't have to cook it any further. What I mean is, because sometimes it can happen that we have an insight about something in our heart, but we use our mind as an interpreter of the heart insight, right? And we bring that to words or bring that to action. So then what will happen is that although your sharing, although your satsang will be rooted in heart insight, you see, it will somewhat get contaminated by pride and specialness. And it is somewhere because it is going through the lens of the proud one, it is going through the lens of the one which is all about 'me, me, me.'

So we must not fear looking stupid or not being sure, because the mind will always doubt the surety of what is coming from your heart. So it'll always play this fear that, 'Can you confirm? Do you really know this?' So if a question is asked, 'Were you born? Was there birth for you?' Heart?

Yes, from the heart is coming yes.

Okay. So that's the next point: that we must never put the heart utterances under the intellect's judgment of right or wrong or good or bad. What is important is to remember that what the heart is telling us is the most helpful for us at that moment. Because you will realize later the categories of true and false, right and wrong, good and bad, yesterday and tomorrow, birth and death—all of these don't actually apply in reality anywhere to anything.

So if you go to the heart feeling like, 'Oh, now I have a siddhi, I have a superpower, if I just go to my heart and I can say what my third cousin is doing in Haridwar by just going to my heart, please tell me,' and we may have this insight that he is playing with his children or something like that, and then we call him and say, 'I know what you were doing, you were playing with your children, my heart told me,' and he's like, 'No, no, I was busy at work.' So then it can feel like, 'Oh, I'm just all over the place, my heart is lying to me, or I'm just not going to my heart.' All this trouble can come. So it is not for that. It is not to make you special, it is not to give you any superpowers; it is just what is needed to be heard at that moment so we can deepen in God's presence, we can deepen in the truth.

Otherwise what you would do is put on your trading terminal every day in the morning, stay in your heart and say, 'Okay, which stock?' Then no, no, then no Master would ever have to ask for donations or anything like that. Heart is telling stock market billionaires or something? It doesn't work that way. And still you have to trust it. You have to remain like that and allow that to unfold and trust that what is provided is what is the highest Grace for you. So it is not a guarantee of being right or wrong in a worldly sense.

What you are referring to as heart, is it consciousness, awareness, or just an aspect of presence? I am presence? What exactly?

So awareness, consciousness, then clears as presence. So this that I'm referring to is the presence.

It doesn't work that way, and still you have to trust it. You have to remain like that and allow that to unfold and trust that what is provided is what is the highest Grace for you. So it is not a guarantee of being right or wrong in a worldly sense.

What you are referring to as heart—is it Consciousness, awareness, or just an aspect of presence? 'I am' presence? What was it exactly?

So, awareness, Consciousness, then clears as presence. So this that I'm referring to is the presence. It is the presence itself which is needed; it is the light in which we can even confirm Consciousness and the reality, the absolute reality of awareness. Because if you try to do it conceptually, you see, you can only do it as a notion. 'Are you awareness?' 'Yes, yes.' Why? Because I read in a book or because you said in the last satsang. You see, it's like that. You confirm conceptually. But to check on whether you are awareness right now, you cannot do it firstly with a head full. So the head has to be empty, and then in the light of presence, it shows you—in a way shows us, actually shows itself—its own source. Where does it come from? Otherwise, the source of presence cannot be found. In fact, even presence cannot be found in the head.

Like you asked, but are we doing the deal of staying in the heart? Yeah, okay, this is coming from the heart. You asked—my heart read seemed to be a bit off when you asked, 'Can you stop being?' I felt the entirety of me.

So when I ask, 'Can you stop being?' you recognize the boundlessness of you. Is that what you mean?

Yeah, I recognized me. I cannot say about boundaries because I really did not recognize the perceptual shape, size, or something. I just recognized me, but in its kind of entirety.

Exactly. So intuitively, like, how did you recognize it? You said yourself, not perceptually, and you were not just thinking it, isn't it? So how did you recognize it?

How? In the sense, maybe like as you say, it could be said as intuitive, but I don't know. Just the question triggers a kind of—it brings me to that recognition.

Yes, but at least we can say that we can answer the 'how not.' How did I not get it? I didn't get it as a perception, and I didn't get it just as a concept. There was a—allow me to use the words—there was a deeper insight, a deeper Atma Gyan, which confirmed a being which is boundless. Now, within the boundless being, there is also tasted a sense which is 'I am.' The whole boundless being is 'I am' in that way, and yet there's the subtlest tasting of the sense 'I am.' So how that may work is that when you hear this question for the very first time, 'Can you stop being?' you may not be able to say, 'Yes, boundless being is here.' We just are able to say that there is something I can't turn it off, you see? Just here. Like, where is it? Here. Somebody will say here, somebody will say here, something they will say around. So that is the Atma. That is the presence of the Satguru, the presence, the Holy Spirit in a way. I've been calling that the hand of God because a purely non-phenomenal God seems too far out, too far-fetched for us to fathom, you see? A purely phenomenal experience would come and go; then it would just become like a vision or something like that that you see—could not, we could never call that true. But that which is both phenomenal and non-phenomenal, that is this Atma. Atma, like beingness, you see. Like, can you say that it's completely non-perceived, unperceived? Stay with this question. It's a beautiful contemplation. Can you say that it is completely unperceived?

You want me to repeat? The sense of our presence, I've often said, is on the cusp of phenomenal and non-phenomenal, you see? So it's like a way of saying it is both phenomenal and non-phenomenal. But when you dive into yourself and when I ask you, 'Can you stop being?' is it like awareness, a completely non-phenomenal recognition? Is it like when you say, 'I am aware'? Awareness is a completely non-phenomenal recognition. That's why the mind tricks you with the dark empty space or something like that. You have to ask: who is witnessing even that? So the recognition, the discovery that I am that awareness, is called the Absolute because it is completely non-phenomenal and beyond. Completely non-phenomenal—there is no other, we can't go any further because you've already exhausted all phenomena, isn't it? You can have progression only within phenomena. You can become subtler, subtler, subtler, subtler, subtler, subtler. You come to a point where you come to this pure awareness, you see? And we need to just use the word 'pure' to tell you that it is completely non-phenomenal. There is no quality there, there is no gradation there, there are no attributes there. It's a purely intuitive insight, one hundred percent only intuition. Like, if your perception is playing a part, then your mind is fooling you. So don't go for that. Ask yourself: what witnesses that? What is aware of that?

But when I ask you about your being, 'Can you stop being?' you cannot say it is a completely non-phenomenal insight because there's a qualitative taste of your being. I am. I am here. Some go into a frenzy, some go into a dizzy meeting this. They may say, 'I have found the Lord, I have found God, I have found Ram.' So what is that? It is the most subtle, most sublime taste which is both phenomenal—because you can say it's here, it's here, it's here. For awareness, we can never say it's here; it doesn't land anywhere. But for being, it's here, it's here, here. But where? I can't see it because it's not that phenomenal. It's also non-phenomenal. So that is God's helping hand, you see? The tip of the iceberg saying, 'Come this way.' See, because you can taste it. You can taste it, but it's the subtlest taste. It's like the taste of water—and not water in a new place where you live—because it's a tasteless taste. So maybe this is a good metaphor. Does water have a taste? No, no. Pure water? Yeah, it's just—but you can't say yes or no, you see? Otherwise, when you are not drinking, and suppose it didn't have any weight or something like that—I'm stretching the metaphor—but you would not be able to confirm that there's water on your tongue if it was completely tasteless. So it has a taste? No, it doesn't have. But is it completely tasteless? No, not really. That's the same way for our being, for the presence.

Now, this presence, which seems like the deepest mystery in this universe—that there is a holy presence within ourselves, there is an Atma within yourself—that's why sages for centuries have strived to come to this Atma, to Atma Darshan or Atma Gyan. That's why we call this the Atma Gyan Kendra, because that is the fulfillment of human life: to come to the discovery of this presence within ourselves. And why it is most important is because it is the only doorway to God. It is the only doorway to truth, the only doorway to absolute reality. So we will need this presence, this being, which is like the subtlest primordial vibration. It is called primordial vibration, subtlest, the substratum of all of this, and yet can't be grasped. Because if it was to become graspable, you would make a shape out of it and that would be it. 'There's a shape, this is the shape.' But it's shapeless. So it is both phenomenal and non-phenomenal. So if I say to you, 'How is it tasted?' you may say as a subtle vibration of presence in my heart region. Some of you may have different reports. But then to the same one, if I was to ask, 'What is its boundary?' you will say it has no boundary. But then you just said it's in your heart region. You said, 'Yes, it's true, it is here,' but you also said it has no boundary. So you yourself in these ways, maybe without realizing, convey the dual nature of the qualitative tasting of being, which is both phenomenal and non-phenomenal.

Once you come to this, then the rest is easy. The rest of insight is easy. Love and servitude are also easier. But sometimes it leads to pride also; we'll come to that later. What is needed for this is for us to be empty of ourselves. And the way to be full of ourselves is to keep our head full, to be in knowledge. It's like this, it's not like this, this is my conclusion, this is what life is like, this is what my partner is like, this is what my work is like. Even the tiniest determination can become like the specks of dust which in your eye can block you from really seeing the moon. So it is very important to keep—stay clean, empty of knowledge, false knowledge. And Bhagavan has confirmed this very clearly. He has said the attainment of the Self will not be something new that you will find; it is when you drop ignorance, when you drop avidya, then that which becomes apparent is Self. So all conceptual vidya is avidya.

So what happens is that after coming to satsang, we usually do a cleanup job. Clean, clean, clean. And there are some strands which remain which are pointed from the Guru itself. 'Are you aware now?' 'Can you stop being?' 'Open and empty.' 'Don't believe an next thought.' Something that resonates with us—those remain as the thin concept strands which we rely on because complete emptiness at one shot is very rare. So you usually need a room or something to clean up every day. It does the cleanup. You just let it run for some time. 'Am I aware now?' 'Am I aware now?' or 'Who am I?' It does the cleanup, and then you come to a non-phenomenal recognition or the recognition of that presence. So that's how the words of satsang also will get dropped eventually. And ultimately they are also complete nonsense. There is no such thing really as the gospel truth, because that which is said is to point us to the holiness of the Atma, the spirit. So provisionally it is the gospel truth; you must rely on that. But ultimately, it must also be discarded. But allow your Master to tell you to let go of all knowledge. I'll start with satsang, fall into that.

This discovery of Atman is so profound. The discovery is so profound, yes. However, it doesn't seem enough, right? Oh, that's not the end. Otherwise, the discovery should have been the end, which is very evident as of now.

Yes, this is not the end. You're right. And the one who—it's better for the one who remains in spite of the insight to conclude that 'this is not the end for me' than for that one to conclude 'it is the end for me.' Okay, let me repeat. So what you're saying is that, 'I came to a recognition of the presence within myself. Through that, I recognize the boundless being, and even the source of that boundless being is an ineffable, unspeakable awareness which is my ultimate reality. I see that that is my Self; there is nobody else.' And then usually we ask, 'Now what am I supposed to do with me?' So then usually we ask, 'Now what am I supposed to do?' Which one is that? That is the one that I've been saying, the 'me' who remains. Like Kang the Conqueror, He Who Remains. This is the 'me' who remains. I see that joke didn't land anywhere—no Marvel fans in this, but okay.

So this 'me' that remains, if that one says, 'I have got it, this is the end,' then that is the Ravana not showing itself as Ravana yet, but it will, you see? So that's why I said I would prefer for this 'me' that remains to conclude that it is not done, you see, than for it to conclude that it is done. Would we all prefer it that we came to insight—'Who am I? Who am I? Who am I?'—and there's no 'me' who remains? Of course we may prefer it, but it is the same 'me' who remains who is saying he would prefer, or she would prefer. So this hopefully—a strand like 'me' which has been now made empty of all its former glory and power, it's just a tiniest sliver of what it was—must be kept in servitude of God. So being in presence—and so just let me complete that, sorry, it's coming strongly—so this 'me,' as long as we still take ourselves to be something, even if that something we live as awareness conceptually, then our job is to follow God's will. And servitude will be taken care of in that intention, because we will not be able to come to God's will unless we are faithful, humble, obedient, grateful, and prayerful. So just that direction, that our life must not be lived on our own terms now, must be lived in God.

And so just let me complete that, sorry, it's coming strongly. So this means as long as we still take ourselves to be something, even if that something we live as awareness conceptually, then our job is to follow God's Will, and servitude will be taken care of in that intention. Because we will not be able to come to God's Will unless we are faithful, humble, obedient, grateful, and prayerful. So just that direction—that our life must not be lived on our own terms now, must be lived in God's Will—will lead to a flowering of all of these beautiful qualities which are the opposite of pride, wanting, desire, wanting to be one of specialness, you see, wanting to win, wanting to be first. All of these are what are glorified in the human condition but are actually very, very bad for our sacredness, for the sacredness of our inner temple. These are terrible things. Selfishness especially is so. The wanting to be first is what? Selfishness. But in the world, it is glorified. You must win, you must be first, you see. So inwardly, you must be really head bowed down, happy for the happiness of our brothers and sisters, instead of saying me, me, me, and me first and me only.

So the one that will never have a complete end, that one must now dedicate its entire life in the service of God and in the active love of God. That's why I've been talking about love and servitude. Both of these elements are for that tiny speck which still remains, you see. But the thing is that if insight is not attractive to us, like we don't like to contemplate, we don't rely on knowledge from our heart, then that then becomes the building block. These become the building blocks to come through insight, and the other way around: insight becomes the building block to come to true servitude and to true love. That's why Bhagavan called it the two wings of the bird of spirituality or a spiritual life.

I can see that the ego, after realizing the beingness or the Atma, it's like, 'Okay, now I have to go to the next stage of awareness or consciousness.' So it still wants to do something more.

And the thing is, after that, with doing, it is not possible. You cannot do your way to awareness. Like, what will you do? After asking 'Who am I?' you come, you've come to the presence. Now what moves you? You have left because that is the edge of your attention also. This is very, very subtle. Beyond your discovery of your beingness, can you push your attention any further? You may feel like it goes to some dark place, but that is not further than beingness; that's just a perception within beingness itself. It's a beautiful contemplation also, this: that you come to the edge of your attention, and your attention was your most primal instrument. You cannot send your hand inside, you see. You can't send any other what? Your attention you can send. So it's a most fundamental instrument, see? But even it has its boundary at beingness. In fact, even the entirety of Consciousness, it cannot fathom the boundlessness of Consciousness. Attention cannot go; it is too limited. So it has to stop at presence itself.

After that is purely intuitive stuff, and you can't try intuitive. Like, you can't try more and more, 'Let me be more intuitive.' You can't do that. So the effort can be taken only in the mind; the effort can be taken only in the body, you see. It cannot be taken with intuition. You cannot say, 'Very intuitive, very intuitive.' You can't do it. There's no mechanism there that you control. It is the dropping of the false modes of knowledge which bring you to the true mode of knowledge. Then once you're in the true mode of knowledge, you can't do it better, harder, or more deeply. All these things don't apply over there. In fact, what happens is intuitively, in an instant of being intuitive, you know everything that could ever be known. And I'm saying this purely intuitively: everything that can ever be known is known in that instant. Your mind does not agree with that because these things have not yet appeared on the surface in the form of spoken concepts or some sort of thinking, conceptual understanding.

So is there a way to conceptually verify this? There isn't. But everything about everything ever in the reality of God, as well as in every play of an appearance of this dream called the universe, all is known instantly. And then according to the grace of God, if something has to come to the surface, that's why through His grace, then centuries ago sages were able to write the Vedas, the scriptures, and they called it Shruti. Shruti was heard. Heard where? Intuitively. Not heard like in Akash so everybody would have heard it like that intuitively, but they didn't probably have another word to it. Because when your intuition speaks, you hear the guidance. You hear it, but it is not like a radio playing in the room or something.

So in this way, so it came to me that I was talking to somebody very young, so I said if I was to explain it to them, how would I see it? What, how would I explain it to them? So it came to me to say that we must keep our head empty. They have said very often: head empty, heart full of love, and the body bowed down in the temple in our heart. And if our eyes have to be somewhere, then they have to be turned inwards. Not physically—some yogis do that—but that's not needed. What is needed is just turn inward. Don't value this as much as you value that. So head empty, eyes inward, heart full of love, and body bowed down in prostration to the Lord. That is a full spiritual life.

What is the way that most of our brothers and sisters are living? Head full of garbage, body not bowed down, full of pride, eyes only desiring outside, and heart being clouded by specialness, competitiveness, hatred, anger, resentment. So it is the opposite of all of that. What will help all of us is that when we come to satsang, we must hear it as literally as possible, see? As literally as possible. As if you ask, we are stuck on the road somewhere, we are getting late, and somebody's giving us the direction. Is it? So when somebody's giving us the direction saying, 'Go straight, take a left,' we're not saying, 'No, no, but I think, I feel like I read in a book,' you see, 'I confirmed I had this experience three years ago.' You see, all of that should be kept aside. It should be heard very literally, and we must not make poetry out of it. We must not make metaphors out of it in the sense when you're hearing it you're just like, 'Ah, so beautiful, so beautiful, so nice.' That's also a mind trick, see? 'So nice, so beautiful.' All that, yes, but are you following? That is more.