Let´s Look Deeply Into This ... - 10th May 2017

Ah, so the witness is not you. You are witnessing also the witness. Is that what it is? Oh, maybe yes, yes, yeah, yeah.

Let's do now, let's look at it now. You're looking at the screen, right? It can change color, long and well, some terrible image. What is perceived? Firstly, the image which is seen. Or what if I see it as 'I' or believe, oh, it was different when I see it, but I think if the witnessing is different? So, this means a ping-pong ball is either the witness or the 'I'.

Very slowly, let's look very slowly together now. Yeah, let's try to see it as ego. What will change in the image? Everything depending on what will the ego watch. Okay, change it now. Be the ego and change the image on the screen. I think you as a witness, I may bring the question for exactly. I'm not getting the question again. Come again, please. You see that the image of perception also changes depending on whether I'm the ego or whether I am the witness. And I'm always modeling and I just acknowledge that we are Atma. Let me make it very specific for you. Is it that the image changes or is it that the interpretation changes?

The interpretation changes. Or the movie is the same but the subtitles change.

Yes, and who is doing the subtitling? That which we call the mind. Who the movie is just a movie, but the way it is interpreted is the nature of the mind to interpret it this way or that way. But what is always the witness? That what is, yes. Okay, now what attention serves to all the evils? Let's look a little deeper again together. This is very good. This is very good already. You say that the appearance remains the appearance, but it is the subtitling, the interpretation, the way I am labeling these images that changes. Right now, you're looking at the screen and the voice of the interpreter would come. Yeah, making judgments about this person. How do you deal with this? How do you engage with this one?

So, the interpreter, you can see the interpreter at times. What I feel and tell you, it is even as it is happening, or the movie going on, and something which says, 'No, this is not right.' But then the ping-pong ball goes to the witness of that. Okay, this is a movie going on. Your reaction to it or the mind-reading was wrong. So, this is it, and here the calmness comes again. Am I making sense?

Yes, maybe yes, but I want to show you something which is beyond calmness. Beyond calmness or turmoil, because we can have this idea that freedom means I must come to a place of calmness. Actually, freedom means the simple allowing of all things to come and go. See all states to come and go. Freedom itself is not a state. Now, we already said that the image is just an image. It is the interpretation which keeps changing. Now, this is the energy construct that we call the mind, the energy construct called thoughts with it. So, this one is calling, 'Here I am getting this,' or it could be saying, 'I am not getting this.' Now, there are two forces that interact with this energy construct called thought. The first is the forceful attention. Even attention goes to nothing, we come to life. Only that which is having attention seems to exist for you, isn't it? Okay, now you mentioned in your book that is being... let's not come and tell, 'I am in Johannesburg, South Africa right now.' The thought comes, the attention also goes to it. But there is another power called belief, the power to convert a thought into something and to pay it some truth value. This is key. So, the thought in your mind right now saying that you are in South Africa, would that be believed?

No, because I won't pay attention to that.

Yes, so even if attention goes, if you keep looking at the thought 'I'm in South Africa, I'm in South Africa,' even if you keep looking at it, just merely by giving your attention, it has not become part of your conditioning. It has not become part of your identity. So, this allowing that the Zen masters speak about, to allow all thoughts to come and go but don't serve them tea, means this. It could get completely unstable. This is our belief system, conditions what we want, what we don't want. All of this is the voice of the interpreter and it is constantly changing. So, we can expect no stability if you keep believing this voice. Now, why should I not believe this voice? A good question to ask is, if the voice comes and says many things, this voice is trying to help me, so why should I not believe it? The answer to that is because what this voice is referring to you as is that it is referring to you as if you are a limited entity in some way, as if you are restricted by your body-mind in some way. Yes, but when you look, you will not find such a 'me' actually, which the ego does not have a tangible existence even at a phenomenal level. Yes, it is in the limitation that I am something, which means I am something limited. It's ideal to separate something that I am, and because then only one works, which is the voice of the mind, which is telling us that you are something limited. And here and then, why disappear? So, this voice is always telling us that you are something limited. 'I am something limited, I want this, I don't want that, I need this, I want freedom, I don't want material things, or I want material things.' All this voice works for our interest, and you've already seen the two primal powers interact with this energy construct for thought. This is the power of attention and the power of belief. So, this itself is very helpful to start with. Now, you can return to our question, which was: what is it that witnesses the imagery on the screen of consciousness, all the imagery of the phenomenal world, and also witnesses what this mind is saying, what these thoughts are saying? What is that? I'm sticking the question on its head again.

Yes, that's okay. We can take our time. There is something that witnesses all the imagery, the phenomenal screen, and also witnesses, perceives what thoughts are saying. Which one is that one? The phenomenal, unforgivable for me, it is the same with a canoe. Still allow anything this body-mind is doing. When I'm even operating on a kid, that is, I become very still at that time. All right, whatever is happening now.

Yes, when you say 'I become,' which 'I' are you referring to?

All the surrenders, the 'I' with tremendous totally. What is the presence? Many people, that which are some things which isn't happening.

Let's investigate these 'I's more and then see if something has to be done. Such as we have to get open more and then see something for these 'I's now. If you did not bother about what the interpreter is saying for some time and you relied on your insights, if you did not rely on the interpreter's voice, the mind voice for some time and you just relied on your own inner insights, what do you say about this one that witnesses all these phenomenal movements?

Well, to attend order a different is just to get into my body. I refer to as 'I' at times. What is the voltage upon relevant going on a long office sitting bottom? This presence.

This presence, what are its qualities? What are the qualities of this presence, the attributes of this presence?

This presence cannot be disturbed by small things. All the mundane things of life cannot be deterred.

So, this presence already is here, which cannot be disturbed. Now, at what distance are you from this presence? How far? What are you first? What very part will mean some distance? This much, this much, this device where? Is there the filter that the difference is it? We always are there to compromise the different is it. Is it quantified?

Okay, okay. Just check in your presence. What is outside of this presence? Now I got nothing. If nothing is outside, then where are you with that? Nothing existed with that. I got nothing on you. Better you and put into the clock, walking to you and the baby, put him in the car. The presence of each thing, it is staying since morning. I've been very different and I knew we were going to get over it. You neither go to the couple, otherwise we'll have something good happening. Unless the baby till their northerly part right down on there. I hope it lasts.

Okay, now don't try to hang on to the presence. In fact, try to stop the presence. Can you stop being? So, I can become 'I', not you can fold a lid for Anshuman. Can you actually become 'me' and stop being? Actually change that which is you, say without attributes, without qualities? Can that actually become something else? Or it can engage one moment, we become to the transcendent electron God Father, and the Father came naturally. I second that. What you do is don't try to stay with the presence. In fact, make the presence go away. Push it away. Become the 'I' within satsang itself. Okay? And then you succeed, you become the 'I', then you come back up and you tell me what you had to do to become the 'I' again. Yes, so much. Okay, my dear, thank you. Waiting for you to come back. Okay, with another hand. So, Brail, you have your hand up again, my dear. You can come. So, Bra, do you have...

Transcendent electron, God, Father... and the Father came naturally. I second that. What you do is don't try to stay with the presence. In fact, make the presence go away. Push it away. Become the 'I' within satsang itself, okay? And then you succeed. You come, die, then you come back up and you tell me what you had to do to become the 'I' again. Yes, so much. Okay, my dear. Thank you. Every for you to come back. Yeah, okay. With another hand. So, Shubra, you have your hand up again, my dear. You can come. Shubra, do you have a question? You have to unmute. Unmute, please. Okay.

I can... can you hear me now?

I can hear you now, my dear.

Okay. Now, my face is just additional. Did you... actually, my question is, I just want to know you. How are you? The orchid? It seems to keep my mind busy already. Actually, I approached you on Facebook asking the same question some time ago. It was like, actually, I try to meditation and listen, got lots of fine things, but later on, like, I start feeling like it is very important to have a snooping schedule kind of place so that my mind doesn't take me back to the normal conditioning. Like, you need to have something of that sort. Is it very important? Before going on to this question, I want you to share something funny with you. I know that you use the Zoom platform the other day, and then something happened where maybe you forgot to switch it off. You were talking to your maybe your husband or friend or something. Waiting very beautifully because you were talking about the 'I am' and before perceiving, and I heard two minutes of that. It is very nice. Thanks. That it's good for me to keep checking my... all of all this on something like this. Yeah, let me just sit here forever.

How dare you? If you have to do it, for what purpose would you be doing it?

Like my own satisfaction.

Now, if you are not doing this, are you unsatisfied?

Sometimes I'm coming to this witnessing perspective where you're just looking at your thoughts. Seems to give you some peace.

Is that what you say? Yeah. And does it seem very natural for you as you do it?

It really comes up very much. Yes, very much so.

On one hand, I can tell you that, yes, there is nothing wrong with something like this. Looking at how the thoughts are flowing is a good thing. But don't pick up the concept that your freedom is dependent on that, because you are free right now. Freedom means what? No bondage. So right now, is there some bondage? If you were to try and become bound... let me give you an example. Right now, in this moment, this moment, this one, this moment... is there Shubra there?

Not really. Or not at all.

Not at all. So this moment, there is no Shubra. And if I tell you that all bondage would belong to this non-existent Shubra... all conditioning, all desires, all likes, all dislikes would belong to this non-existent entity, Shubra. So first, to be bound, I must have the concept that I am this limited entity. You see? Are you with me? I can repeat. Is there first an effort in playing as Shubra, or is there effort in being free?

Effort in playing Shubra. More effort.

It's good, and as I hope everyone is hearing you, it is more effort to try and be something or somebody than to not be anything or nobody. You see? You can be Guruji, the best cleaning lady in the world. This moment, all our conditions, all identity, all that troubles our society... now what happens is that there comes this offer. The offer comes from the mind saying that you buy me as a concept and you will get something which you don't have already. But in this moment, you are already all there is. And yet, in this realm, in the play of this Maya, consciousness itself starts to play with this offer and say, 'Okay, I will go with what you are selling.' And we pick up a concept that I am something limited. I could be the best person, the most spiritual person, the most accomplished person, the most wealthy person, the most healthy person. And yet, this idea is not the truth because I can never be a person. A person is just an idea, a set of beliefs I have about myself. Do you see? Naturally, all of this is one. In this moment, if I don't give you a moment to think also, you will not be able to show me any trouble. You will not even be able to reply with anything about yourself unless I give you some time to think about it. But there is always a time visible box... oh, you got rid of that chiming. Yes, this is it.

So we see that naturally, we have seen in every moment, this simple no bondage, freedom is here. And yes, because these thoughts continue to come, they seem to have some power and seem to create this idea that I am a limited entity. So what to do when these thoughts come? So very simply, I could tell you: let these thoughts come and go. Let them come and go. But then you could say, 'Yes, that's easy to say, but when they come strong, I can't let them come and go.' Then I could say, 'Okay, you will use the enquiry.' As the Bhagavan says, enquire: who is the witness of even this thought? If surrender is not happening, the letting go is not happening, and it seems like thoughts still have a lot of power over us, then we can enquire and see who witnesses this thought. Then you find that the thought starts to lose its power. If that is also not happening, you could say... not just believable for everyone, we are exploring why spirituality. This means if it was just to do with letting go, forget about it. Then why so many sages have given so many different practices?

We looked at letting go. Allow all thoughts to come and go. Like I like to say: don't believe your next thought. That is all. Don't believe your next thought. But over four years, I've constantly heard the response saying, 'But I can't not be doing. I think I keep giving my belief to these thoughts, especially when they push some special button about relationship or money or something.' All of us have a special button. Then I could say, 'Okay, enquire. Who is it that is witnessing this thought? Who is this response for?' And we can look like that. Some say, 'Ananta, I can't even enquire. I can't be having fire.' Oh, then a sage will say, 'Okay, I think why are you so... you can't even ask who is it that I am? Who is this response for?' Then you can do this particular mantra which I give you to chant. Some sages say to chant this one. Then some say, 'Oh no, no, I have no patience. I have no patience for mantra chanting.' Say, 'Okay, can you just bring your attention to your breath and just stay with your breath?' In and out. Some of those sages, we call it the Buddhists, will call this mindfulness. Some say, 'Not even this I can do. Even this I cannot do.' Then they say, 'Okay, to give you some peace of mind, can you sing something? Can you sing the bhajan? Can you sing some chants?' They say, 'No, even this I cannot do.' Then we say, 'Okay, just pray. Don't even think, just pray. Ask for help, ask for peace.' They say, 'No, no, no, no, even prayer... who are we praying to? What's going on? I don't like it.' To me, what is this? Where things... and they say, 'Okay, I can do for you some Hatha Yoga. Move your body around in a certain way so that because the body and the mind are interrelated, with all the energy concepts in this world interrelated.' So when you move your body in a certain way, it also has some effect on the breath and the mind, everything. So move the body in this way. When someone actually told me, 'No, no, even this I cannot do. I cannot even do the yoga.' Then to them, I say, 'Okay, just go to sleep today and then tomorrow we talk.'

So what is all of it about? Something revealing with the simplicity of it is that all of it is about us not falling for the idea that the mind is selling us. Just come to be simple. Allowing your mind to come and go is what all spiritual practices are about. So it is not that we have to find the Self. The Self is what you are. If the Self was coming and going, then that Self would not be a worthy Self. The Self already is what you are. The point is our satsang is for consciousness to stop playing with the idea of being something limited. The idea of being a person. And consciousness is playing this game, this Leela, this Maya. In this case, the consciousness... this is the game of the human shooting itself to be something limited and then stepping out of this game. But even the stepping out, it wants to do with full juice. It wants to extract some joy even through stepping out of this delusion. That's why it creates this satsang. It takes all these various practices for each other to please leave it and come to the simple idea: I am what I am. As I asked you, can you stop being? You cannot stop being. So this being cannot be stopped. Being is as my consciousness, as I am. It has no phenomenal limits. All phenomena arise with limits. All time and space arises in your space of being. Have you ever had the experience of something when this presence was not there? When you were not there as 'I am'? You must be there for any experience to happen. And for this, the truth is unchanging.

So coming back to your original question: if you feel like doing a particular thing with like a practice, like watching your thoughts, gives you some peace, it's very good. But don't let the mind convince you that you are unfree and you have to do something to get to freedom. Right now, in this moment, there is no difference, no separation, no duality. We are one.

I just want to know more like... constant opinion that state clear. I should not mean that my mind is always by doing... my mind is like, need to know to exercise. I don't know because I'm just sometimes overshadowed by my getting on critical when I'm still. Yeah, like I should be doing something wrong that I'm not worth it. Like to take em aside.

One, firstly know that you are never really overshadowed by the mind. They would clearly overshadow... the mind is just one aspect of your consciousness. Mind is also an aspect of you which consciousness itself has designed so that it can play with this world as if it is an individual. So the finger can never be more powerful than the hand. So the mind will also be a finger on your hand. It can never beat you, overpower you. Then whatever you practice, whatever you play, becomes more playful, becomes more natural. Otherwise, there can be too much tension about it. It can give you the sense, 'I have to do practice, otherwise I get overwhelmed with my mind.' If we operate from a state of fear... so I want to take away that fear from you and tell you that nothing can overwhelm what you are. It is just like a shadow. The ego is nothing but a shadow. The shadow itself does not have power. That which looks at the shadow and gives it the belief that it has some power, that makes the shadow seem powerful. Which is just like this: the mind is harmless if we allow it to just come and go. Even when we believe it, it is only the picking up of the pretense of personhood, of the pose of the role. Because of the mind, you might pick up the idea that you are a limited entity, but you can never become your reality. You are unlimited beings whether there is mind or not, whether there is belief in the mind or not. In every moment, you are free.

Before you start the practice, are you more free? Before you start the practice, are you bound? Are you free before actually starting?

Bound. But gradually as I start, free.

Investigate this. We make in every moment... can you truly be bound in any moment? Can any appearance bind you? Even if you're angry, frustrated, full of rage, or you're full of joy, peace... that which you are in either case is not bound. That which perceives all of these movements of anger and joy, frustration and peace... all of this is perceived. Is that perceiver ever truly bound? Now, that which tells you that you are still something limited, that there is still something for you to do, that is the voice of the mind. And I told you what to do with that. Just let it go. As you can, if not, then I told you... I say, okay, I am going to sleep or to go to all the possible for you to practice will define for you. So this is the only thing: you are always the Self. You're always the being. This being is moving within yourself and is all within yourself. This is unchanging. Till now, the thoughts come and tell...

The thought that you are still something limited, that there is still something for you to do—that is the voice of the mind. I told you what to do with that: just let it go. As you can infer God, then I told you, until I say, 'Okay, I am going to sleep' or 'I am going to go,' it is possible for you to practice what I define for you. So this is the only thing: you are always the Self. You are always the Being. This Being is moving within yourself, and it is all within yourself. This is unchanging.

Till now, the thoughts come and tell you that you are something limited. What to do with those thoughts? You can inquire into them and say, 'Who is it?' Like, take an example of a thought that troubles you. What troubles you the most in life? 'Am I good enough?' Like, this is the thought that comes out, right? 'Am I good enough?' I am looking into that. It could be the one that troubles you the most. It is very good to see this because many, many people who are in spirituality find themselves plagued with this sort of unworthiness. Freedom is there, but it must be only for those special ones. Is it really for me? Am I worthy of this freedom? This kind of thought.

So you take it into inquiry and say, 'Who is this I that could be unworthy? Who could that I be that is unworthy?' It doesn't have any existence right now. This I that could be unworthy—where is this one? Before, like that, we can take these thoughts as turbulence. You feel like more thoughts are fabulous? No, they have a very limited idea of 'I' as a limited entity who is unworthy, who is fearful. Then we use that in our inquiry. Say, 'Who is it that could be unworthy? What is the I that is unworthy?'

As you inquire into it, some of these thoughts don't leave. Keep the inquiry up for as long as whenever you get some time. You stay with it. Do the thought when it comes. It becomes laughable. So when the thought comes and says, 'No, you are very unworthy' or 'I am very unworthy,' you will see that once it loses all of the juice, it becomes laughable. So inquire into it and don't let it be. Why are we doing this again? I know there is nobody actually, and not like that. Just stay really. Let the thought come. Let attention go to the thought 'I am unworthy' or 'Am I worthy?' and look and see: who is I that would be worthy or unworthy? See in that looking and confirm to yourselves that there is no such limited identity who could be unworthy.

Next time when the thought comes, see if it still has some juice. Then you use inquiry again. If it comes and you just smile at it and laugh at it and say, 'What are you talking about?' like that, then you know it has lost its power. It is common in the human condition also, but we have two or three main buttons like this on a remote control. Whether it is relationships or something, simple inquiry like this can take away all the power from these thoughts which are telling you as if you are something very small. Thank you for my progeny because we will eventually follow that, and it is really my pleasure. From your people, I am following. They are keeping the inquiry within them. I just came across a track and read about it. It is really my pleasure. Thank you. I do it. It is a complete joy.

Okay, so this one last question for today. And it is someone... you can come, my dear.

Yes, yes, my dear. I just want to ask: what is the only way to deal with the body pains? Well, my dear, who says and how long like this? There are a lot of decisions from your line because it is... our expectation is currently holding when a person is making one up, follows it back on now it should be fitted. Okay, I just wanted to ask how to treat the body pains.

Yes, yes, I got the question, my dear. Just put you on mute while I answer it and then you come. This question is: how should one deal with pain in the body? So I am going to take a bit of a longer route onto this question because it is very important for those of you who have been in satsang for a while to get a little bit more clarity on our position with respect to the body. What is the true position in relation to the body? For that, we must rely on our insights of the body-to-body experience.

You experience the body visually—look at the hands and feet—and also you experience the body encasement as a set of sensations. Because the sensation seems so intimate to us, it is a popular belief that 'I am something which is contained within this body.' But I want all of us to look together at this and see whether it is the body that contains your Being, your presence, or whether it is the presence which contains the body. So allow yourselves to experience the sensations of this body and notice where these sensations are experienced.

Let's use the term 'space of experiencing' for a while. Are the sensations of the body not experienced in the same space of experiencing as you are experiencing this voice right now? All of the experiences—are they not experienced in the same space of experience? Movement of our attention, then, is happening within the space of experiencing. Everything in a phenomenal experience happens within us. And by 'us,' I mean within the space of my existence, in the space of my Being, which is the one space in which all experiences happen.

Don't be in a rush to jump to this conclusion. But as you keep looking, it is inevitable that you will find that this bundle of flesh and blood is a distant aspect of my own Being. It will not contain me; I contain it within my existence. I Am. And it is within the same existence, I Am, that all of the experiences are also happening. All of the phenomena are also experienced, including the primal phenomena of time and space. All happens within my Being.

As we come more and more to this recognition, we will find more openness to experience anything that this realm has to offer, including the sensations of pain in this body. In this openness, it is not a promise that the pain goes away. That, all of us can testify and say that accepting pain makes it much easier to handle. Then there is this acceptance of all sensations, all energetic movement within your Being, as well as willingness for this world to be as it is, including the body to be as it is. All of us have found that in this openness and with acceptance, the pain does not seem as strong and overwhelming as it did when it was met with the concept 'this should not be.'

The starting point is this recognition of the enormity of your existence, your Beingness, Being without limits. So at least you can say the limits cannot be found. So this is what is for me important. What happens in the phenomenal realm about the pain or the painkillers, the massage you've had, or any pain relief—it is completely fine. Allow that movement to happen as it is happening. In our openness, also, actions are allowed to happen. Now, this also allows emotions to come and linger for as long as they want. An action that also allows one to move without the idea that there is an individual in the world who must do something in this form. So then we can say that we allow it to unfold on its own, in its own natural way. Or we can say, like, 'I rely on my intuition who guides me about these things.' Actually, it is very similar.

What is important is: what is my position with respect to my body, with respect to the world? Am I something that exists within this world, or is this world something that exists within me? What defines my limitation? One of the popular questions in satsang is how to distinguish between words of the mind and the words of intuition. This will fit this question for quite some time. The longer answer is that the voice of the mind is always trying to get something, trying to grasp something; it is operating in devotion, desire, and duality. The voice of intuition that accompanies is love, peace, joy, and just spaciousness. We can smell it then. There is also a shorter answer. The shorter answer is that that which tells you that you are limited in any way is the mind. That which tells you that you are bound, that you have some boundary or limitation, is the voice of the mind. That which is constantly pointing you to your unborn, undying essence—that is your intuition.

I just feel like a little more real. There is no pain, no more logic. Do you mean... yeah, can you hear me? Yes, can you hear? Because I have a very important question for you guys. I will just let you go for the moment and now you come to the question.

No, no, I've been having a question. It is just that about the health. When I see everything is happening in my presence, then there is no true suffering; it just vanishes. But the paradox is the role, and you know, the mind starts giving the world attention. And now my question is, you cannot part with one... what kind of father you are doing? Yeah, so the thing is, for sure tomorrow there may not be any remedies for the pain. What did you answer? The doctor said, 'What is the point of your sadness? You can't even part with one pain.' So if you could kindly guide me on what to do. This is asking: what did you answer the doctor? Let me ask you a question.

I said this is it. I'm really crazy. Expectations... I don't have a sense to shake it out. Actually, he is saying that the outcomes are very fast. You say get this and that. You were talking with the doctor, and he's trustworthy?

Yeah, I have. Yes, it must follow that way. Yeah, okay. I mean, that is what there was... the dilemma was whether to go with whatever is included within the machine or the story. Ramakrishna Paramahansa also had... number one, that he had cancer. How he always felt the body... then the Yoga Vasistha also asked at one point, including how to treat the body. Everybody's story is not the same, and you want to leave the story of the phenomenal as different for every single expression of consciousness.

Each has come with a different story, and if we try to match up and you try to make the right matching and say, 'Okay, this will tell me how to do, what to do,' then it is all completely confusing. Consciousness loves variety. It is one big variety show. No two equations are ever the same, and no template for anybody's life is applicable completely to any other life. We just have to trust our intuition in the present moment. And if some guidance is needed, we can rely on that. And you're blessed to have somebody who is a doctor that is trustworthy. Incredible. I see no reason to conclude that with all kinds of stories from the past. Okay, thank you. Mostly energy. Okay, dear. You guys will feel it. If you don't, you don't see nothing. Oh, there you are. I was so, so happy to see you again.

There was just... I want to say something here, and I don't know if it's a question or not. But two weeks ago, I had my appendix removed. So there was a small surgery, and I never had anesthesia, full anesthesia. So there was a lot of fear until the last second. There was this one thinking that... the voice saying that I will play next with this magic. Yeah, and I am watching that the one speaking that I want is like this. And I said, 'Okay, go on.' And then from one second to the next, it was all done. And then after waking up, actually, it turned out to be the most beautiful thing ever. And intuitively I knew that I have always been there, and that that one which was exists, which is probably... it is not just one. Yeah, so it was a... you cannot... I cannot go back home. How it's in the heart that that one who tried to cry, do not blast. That one is the real one which we've enjoyed. Yeah, so I'm just trying to actually confirm.

From one second to the next, it was all done. And then after waking up, actually, it turned out to be the most beautiful thing ever. And intuitively, I knew that I have always been there, and that that one which was fifty exists, which is probably—it is not just one, yeah. So it was a receivable... I cannot put it back home. It's in the heart. That one who dragged to Christ, do not blast—that one is the real one which we've enjoyed, yeah. So I'm just trying to actually confirm it with what you are pointing at.

Yes. In fact, it's a nice coincidence that just a few days ago, somebody sitting here with me was saying, 'What about the energy they experience?' People get one experience that I have not had, this very experience. And then, right here in the room itself, we had three or four different experiences. It was too much; they were just nothing. And the one said, 'No, no, but I was there watching that the body was out with all the various experiences coming.' What I would relate to, because in this life is not given service and a serious in here, but I would like to do is compare it to something like deep sleep. Okay? Deep sleep. It is very funny how the number of people will tell you, 'But I'm not there in deep sleep.' Yes, a very usual response, actually.

In deep sleep, then the question to me is: how do we know there is release? Because this book—there was a time when I was like the book 'I Am That,' that was my Bible. I carried it around with me where Maharaj, Nisargadatta Maharaj, was talking to these guys. He says, 'Because you don't remember it doesn't mean that you have not been there.' But also, we remember. Let's look at this very closely. Let's look really close. I ask you another thing. What time did you wake up this morning?

5:45.

5:45. What was there before 5:45?

There was not the conscious feeling of being. I was there, but not conscious of this feeling of being.

Very good. Very cool. So if this was not directly experienced, although there is no phenomena to experience, this absence of phenomena is also seen. Also seen. Otherwise, what you would tell me is that before 5:45, we were state 15. 10:15 was the time I went to sleep and everything disappeared, and suddenly, 5:45. But that is not a report. The report is that I woke up at 5:45; before that, there was nothing. I was sleeping. Even in the absence of something—if I switch off the light in this room, or in your room when we talk and there is nothing to hear, there's nothing to see, taste, touch, smell—then would you still exist?

Yes, but not phenomenally.

Yes. But even if the sense of existence went away, there must be an 'I' to which that 'I am' would even not be there. Of course, the reporting cannot happen unless 'I am' comes back. It is only a functioning of this phenomenal realm, right? That the 'I' changes. I think I'll be able to see that there are these four states, but one can say that there are these four states—waking, dreaming, deep sleep, and Turiya. Whatever the treetops, they must be 'I' which is the unchanging witness in front of which, or within which, you can say this is a commencement. So whatever works. So what you are saying is that there is awareness even of non-being.

Exactly. Right now, there is awareness of the being. In deep sleep, when there is nothing happening phenomenally, there is an awareness of that. It is a waking state to see that nothing happened. Exactly what I'm saying in another way, more importantly maybe, is that nothing happens to 'I' in spite of the arising of 'I am' and the waking state. You return to the point to see this, then we lose the fear of this waking state. What can happen to 'I'? Nothing. This is not subject to this waking state. It is just the state which is coming and going with all its activity, including the search for freedom. You see? All of it going, the 'I' remains unchanged. And this is the 'I' as the one that 'I' removes, and yet remains. What is this that you mean?

She likes it... it was a thesis that comes in booth. Somehow during the waking state, as I think there's a guy called Isaac Shapiro, there's a talk where the word is called 'cognitive cognition factor,' which is to the point he said this body is apparently separate from that body. So my own experience is this body is appearing as equal as an object like any other object in the waking state.

Yes. And we must be with our experience, we must be with our insight. And that's when something also I tell everyone: that you will see with your own eyes and see these words ring true on the basis of your insight. And if you find that they do not resonate, then you come and say, 'Father, you say like this, why is it that my experience is different?' Because here we're not changing one set of old concepts and creating new concepts; we're replacing old concepts with your own insights.

So on one side is done when there is a thought... I'm just using an octopus just a little bit there for how I put the words. The thought like, 'I have lost awareness,' which is actually happening. It is besides, but the definition of awareness must be the definition that we use in Satsang here. Many people use awareness in a different way, in a phenomenal way, and that is accurate for that definition. So the problem many times is in the definition of terms. That which we refer to as awareness, capital A, is the undying. It cannot come and go. So in these creatures, when awareness... that nothing is happening, or it's deep sleep, or I didn't sleep, or I slept... there's someone knowing that. There's sort of someone... that's I have a little bit trouble me saying 'someone' in that case.

It's not a personal someone. Yes. We're not even objective. We know anything at all because there is a series... is this here? Well, at least 'I' as a seeing each other, you know? Where 'I' as awareness itself am aware of the function. And then as... so just to again, a beautiful... sometimes Mooji will say, as you pointed to me the first time when I went to Rishikesh, that something must be here which is not caught up in the bubble of anything. Here, as I talk with you, as this form talks with that form, there is this something which is not caught up in the bubble, which is as you call the seeing. And it's very much non-phenomenal. You cannot objectify it.

Exactly right. Exactly. So just to see this for ourselves, when asked the question, 'Are you aware now?' do you see awareness as an object? What comes with this body is visible, that this is something, this body is appearing in this. This is an object. The form is an object. But what it's appearing in can't be really said what it is. But even if the question is asked very quickly, like 'Are you aware now?' and there is no time even to turn this word into an object, would you say yes?

Yes.

And yet, did you find any evidence phenomenally of this awareness? Can we find the shape of awareness, or the size of awareness, or the color of awareness? We can find the age of the different phenomena, but for this? Absolutely not. Now, is there anything else that you can say yes to without finding any phenomenon as to do this?

Sense of just being.

Yes, that comes very close. But even this we sense as a presence, as a cousin. Even this is something where one of the audio phenomena, the root of all phenomena by itself, it comes very close. And yet the presence of being, the sense of existence, if experienced... awareness, we cannot even report this. Some teachers say, they use the term like 'aware presence.' It becomes a bit confusing to you. I will say that within this awareness arises this presence of being. But awareness itself is so attributeless, so without quality, that you cannot even say where it is. The presence itself is a sense of existence.

So in sleep states, I am not experiencing the presence of myself?

Well, it just... it might be so, but it's subtle, and depending on the terminologies. So this one needs awareness, the recognition of yourself which is completely without quality, and yet it is undeniable. We say yes. Nothing else. Everything else you have to see phenomenally to say yes or no. Is there a computer in front of you? You have to see it and say yes. Are you experiencing a thought? The thought comes, you see its mind is here. If there is no thought, you say no mind. But for awareness, you can never say no. Because even to say 'no awareness' means what you're saying is, 'I am aware that there is no awareness.' It's the business of unchanging. And in this community, all thoughts, as you would in the body-mind, can arise. Of course, tears can come, laughter can come, but there is something which is somehow not touched. You can see where they are rising from.

Exactly. Everything is allowed to arise because everything is the will of consciousness. Not a blade of grass moves unless it is the will of God. In some people, the word consciousness, being, or God—it's okay, whatever terminology. Basically, I am, and then the world is the light of 'I am' on the screen of 'I am.' I am the source of this world, and I am where this world is always. Everything, including this body, is part of this world. A more practical thing to tell you is that if I take the world as running effortlessly, most of the things our Satsang will agree with that. But I say no, now you include your body also as part of the world. Include your body as part of the world. Then the doership question does resolve. Have you welcomed over the tone? These words are coming out on their own. The hearing of these words is happening on its own. We will be moving effortlessly. Even the sense of seeming effort is coming effortlessly in the light of consciousness.

So in the waking state, the thoughts like, 'Okay, I have to do this and after that I have to go here,' and with this, even judgmentally... actually, all we may have, like you can't even stop judging. It's just it goes on, that's all. Like it looked earlier, this is what's happening.

What's happening is that we see that in all our discussion today, we saw that there is awareness which is aware of itself and aware of its presence, the presence of being. Now within this spirit, all of these phenomena movement is happening. One of the phenomena movement is this energy construct for thoughts. Consciousness, as the player of the game, has given itself two powers: the power of attention and the power of belief. It produces the power of belief; it creates the false identity for itself because it wants to play this game personally. As it burns out playing this game personally, it starts playing the withdrawing of belief from the thoughts which tell it to itself that it is something limited. So as you come into Satsang, we often hear this advice that 'don't believe what your thoughts are saying' or 'don't go along with it.' This is consciousness which has set an alarm clock for itself saying, 'Don't believe your thoughts' or 'Don't go with what these thoughts are saying' or 'Don't identify.' To identify is to believe your thoughts. So it is consciousness which created the game of deluding itself, playing the person, and now consciousness is coming out of the play of this delusion to be by means of Satsang, inquiry, sadhna, whatever means, which is a plan. No person has been born, you see? None of this. We said now the person is born and now the person is dying. This is the person, and it is one already, and let's be in force to the fresh police now.

Then this... even to stop identifying, there is other than you. Actually, what my own... please, if you find some trick cost money, please point out and I'll tell you that anything... this idea... I can... I'm just saying that in this report, are you referring to yourself as something limited or unlimited? And I'm trying to clarify some things within the first lecture. What is that? A perspective within reality? It is not little. This is me, I think. Excuse me, because very even in a sincere question, the...

Identifying there is other than you, actually... what my own... please, please, if you find some trick cost money, please point out. And I'll tell you that anything, this idea... I can... I'm just saying that in this report, are you referring to yourself as something limited or unlimited? And I'm trying to clarify some things within the first lecture. Yes, what is that? A perspective within reality? It is not little. This is me. I think this, excuse me, because even in a sincere question, the mind tells us the story of our limited existence, which is never reality. It is not fair. It asks what equals... even scientific to say, let us take the perspective of a limited entity. Only we see that there is such a limited entity, only limited objects that we embrace to ourselves, this body. But this body doesn't have this question. No, the body doesn't want on us, or do you see? Like, and swim inside the boundary, it's actually at all. Then I am the body, this idea starts to fit. Yeah, you see that in every idea, in most studies of the mind, inherent is this idea that I am a limited entity.

One Ananta, this is the... I have come again and again to this point. It's this is the root of all our 'my body' ideas. This is the usual when we check in into the phenomenal. Yeah, but right now this idea is gone. Now it's gone. Now it's gone. If you go sell time to bring it back, think about it, it can come back. Yeah, yeah, of course it's... Alex, do you want to play the game of picking up the idea over and over again and dropping it, or just you want to see you right now as it's not collect?

It is this another idea with this idea always gets me and which, which means that someone... yeah, because every time, as Moojiji would say, every time the one that speaks it, it speaks as a person. It never speaks as non-phenomenal. The very voice of this man is limited. You mean within the question or answer?

Question, yeah. When whenever that one was 'I' reference, I suppose I think never always speak to it. If I want to say something, this is of course I can show, but as a person. The design of the mind, you see, it is the job of this narrator to convince you that you are this character within this game. Maybe so. It is only doing its job when Joshua generated here. It automatically pastiche some to that son, play the game of coming to the Satsang to recharge the he promised limited idea of itself. There is no limited self. The word is discrete details of the oxymoron.

And then this, this listening to long times over the time, and I was really into Ramesh basically. There was a book called 'Your Head in the Tiger's Mouth'. So where he already talked about, so then how to live your waking state? Then he points, he says do what you need to do. Then the question of the intuition and intelligent action, or he says then lock your car, for example, when you go somewhere. Then you see what I'm trying to... then how to... because there's this idea to live open and all that, but then things will happen as they happen. Then the same of doer being the one who is living the so-called my route.

Get it. If I can understand a little bit of what you're saying. I went to the mission so few years, the climate Guruji. Yeah, something I want to point out to you. It was good. The idea is that I am this box of mints. Then if this box of mints greens, yes, they're also white here. You see, it is it the doer or who is the non-doer? Yes, you cannot do anything. What I am saying is that there is no box of mints that you are. Here is 'I' which is limited, which could be either the doer or the non-doer, is not what you are. There is no such limited 'I'. Because but this an apparent 'I' because phenomenal, which does think in the waking state. The 'I' that is phenomenal, or the root of all phenomena itself from which all phenomena come, only the 'I am'. Everything after that is a pretense. No person has ever been born even in the phenomenal list. In fact, you notice that I have for four years now promised a thousand dollar award to anyone who shows me the person.

I understand it in my heart. I'm using this was intuitively because there was a very clear thing that this what I am has never really been born. Yeah, and yes, but what the only clarification is, for example, so I can only say, but I am to have to use the word 'I' here, that I woke up, I went to the Satsang, I did this. Either that's knowing well that I never did anything.

Yes, please continue to be natural in a worldly expression. I don't want you to be going to restaurants paying as awareness. Now playing is consciousness. Thank you, such as now within our body is 10% we eat some pasta. Fresh consciousness as notable playing a needle. We can completely play all the roles very naturally as a test, and all the work can come up with lately according to that situation. Thank you so much too, and you also very much focus on today. Thank you for the insistently. Is a Guruji metidq? Yeah, okay.