In This Simple Seeing, the Person Concept Dissolves - Feb. 3, 2015

So here we are saying that don't chase anything, don't seek anything, don't even believe in anything. Just tell me what is already here. Not a concept, not some intellectual... this simple seeing. Very simple. I am very attracted to simplicity. And when somebody is talking very intellectually, very fancy words, and I can sense that there's interest is very... in fact, really quickly moving away. You cannot find myself engaging him in these kind of intellectual conversations because the truth is pure simplicity. But in this upside-down way of the mind, then this pure simplicity, the mind makes it seem like it is something complex or abstract. 'Too deep, yeah, this is too deep for me. Maybe I should just chant the mantra or something.'

But actually, what you could do is you can play a little game. If your mind is shouting like this, that this is too difficult, especially if this is your first time in satsang, then what you can do is you can hear one sentence at a time and be vigilant like this. Hear one sentence at a time and then tell me if there was something difficult. You can just point out that this was too difficult, it was too abstract, this I did not understand, can you repeat again? And I'm very happy to repeat. So don't believe this thought which is saying that I still need to ripen some more, I still need to open some more, something like this, to understand what he is pointing to. So if there's something that is coming strongly, that this is not understood, this is not right, something, you just point out and we can have a look at it together. Thank you everyone, namaste.

Father, thank you for this amazing privilege for being here. Thank you so much. Thank you for being here also. Krishna has actually said something very beautiful. He said that kirtan is all about the call and the response. If you would not call, then I would not come. Thank you so much for your blessings. I have a question, Father. How do we deal with family, like parents, children, attachment to them? How to deal with this kind of attachment? Thank you.

The Atma has no problem dealing with any relationship. The person cannot handle a single relationship. So if you try to do it with your mind, you'll only get to frustration, you'll only get to friction, all kinds of things that exist in all relationships, most relationships. So first, don't expect them to change. What is the trouble in relationships? We want them to give us our freedom completely, but we want them to change. And like this, if you hear it first time, you might not get the contradiction in this, the irony in this, you see? We want complete freedom, complete freedom to be exactly as we please, but we're not even willing to give the same freedom to our loved ones. Are we willing to accept their non-acceptance of us?

Say they are non-accepting of an attribute. It could be satsang. Suppose they don't accept satsang. Are you accepting they are allowed to be like this? Are you treating their non-acceptance with your own non-acceptance? So then non-acceptance is meeting non-acceptance and causes all the explosions in this realm, in this play of interpersonal relationships. It means two egos for there to be conflict. In the play, it seems like it is two egos; actually, it's the same guy. But here, if you're not responding to these situations from the ego, from this concept of belief and thoughts, then how is it possible to have conflict? So remember that I'm speaking at the realm of relationships from the ultimate perspective. Even all of this play, even conflict, is all the doing of Consciousness itself.

But it is good for you to hear. So you must see that what is the trouble? The trouble is that I want freedom, I want to be exactly the way I want to be, but am I giving the same freedom to everyone? Am I giving the same freedom to the world? Then what trouble can God have in dealing with a relationship? Can God have any trouble in dealing with any relationship? But don't expect God to dance to your mind's tunes. Your mind is saying that I want the relationship to go in a particular way, and the mind knows nothing. It does not know what you truly need.

I had a beautiful conversation with a friend the other day who is here, and he was saying that it is so beautiful how this relationship happens. We just met and things just seemed to flow, and so beautifully we were in this beautiful relationship. And now why does there have to be conflict? Why does there have to be this? And it had to be said that it is the same one who's running that show of getting together so beautifully who is also running this show of this seeming conflict. Life in every moment is giving us a gift of teaching us acceptance. To be able to let go is the greatest acceptance. And let go does not mean it has to be let go in the physical realm, but let go of all concepts about relationships. And then you will see that all of this, what happens in this phenomenal realm, it's just playing out on its own.

We have a concept that if I am free, then my body should not get sick, nothing should happen, because I'm the free one now, enlightened one, my body should not get sick. Same way, we might have a concept that, okay, now that I am free, then I should not have any conflict in any interpersonal situation. What is, comes. It can play out. Sometimes anger can come, irritation can come, all these can come. But what you will find is that none of it can last. So anger can come, but resentment cannot come. Resentment cannot last. Sometimes they tell you like this, isn't it? That sometimes I will start an argument, or I could find myself in an argument, and midway through the argument I start laughing and wondering what's going on. But then just to keep up the game, you have to come up and say something. So you're unable to hold on to any resentment because you see the game in all of this. You see the reality of the person here and there.

Actually, the ones in Sangha have this very common problem, which is that they are able to see that they are not the person here, but they're not able to see that there is no person even in front. No person exists. So we've not made a non-person out of you. We've only showed you what you are. So you've taken something which was getting all your attention and belief, and we've asked you to keep it aside for just an instant and just to really check what you are. And you saw that I cannot be this. I cannot be just an idea. In this simple seeing, this person concept starts dissolving. It's all one being. It's all one scene now. How can you hold a grievance? Who are you holding a grievance against? You cannot hold it because then it is God holding a grievance against God himself. If there is no person, then who has the grievance and against whom?

So is there someone here who is not able to let go of a grievance? Then you throw it in the fire or something today and be done with it. So this should be there or not, or how do we accept it if it has to be?

It's very good because most of the world has confused love and need. You see, like you said, love and attachment. It's not the same thing. Actually, it's very different. Love is not the same as attachment. Love is not the same as need. What is love? What is love? In the presence of being, then there is the arising of these energies called love, called peace, called joy, called bliss. There is nothing that you can do to create love. See, love arises on its own. And we say that for the unassociated being, when you are empty of concepts, then you will find that love is in service to you. So this is love. It's very pure, very beautiful.

And what is need? Need is a lot of work. Need needs belief in concepts. It asks for us to believe in some thoughts. And when we believe ourselves to be a person, then we can say that I, as a person, need companionship. I need the other. I need to be taken care of. I need to be loved. All this need, there cannot be need without first believing in the person concept, you see? So this need is called attachment, that I cannot do without this one. Just a thought, you see? When it seems like we are sitting with our beloved, where are we actually? It is still just the witness of the entire play. So first we must have invented this person, giving belief to this person, to then have attachments, because all attachments are personal. All attachments are personalities. But true love is not personal.

If there is true love in a relationship, you will not try to bind them and they will not try to bind you. But need needs to hold on, it needs to grasp, it needs a relationship to go in a certain way. So then the question is, okay, so I've understood now that love and attachment are two different things, so now what should I do? Not really. And then we can answer to this question. We can see it. Just allow your presence to speak. Don't have any concepts about the relationship. And you're there, another is in front of you, and of the seeming another is in front of you. Let the one who has created this situation also come up with the words that are supposed to be spoken. Let everything flow like this very beautifully. No trying to manipulate, no trying to maneuver. So the Atma can play. Consciousness actually can play the role of a mother, of a child, of a beloved. All roles can be played very easily. Can the one who is running this entire universe not run your life? It is actually His life. This one that says it is 'my life' is a separate one that does not exist.

The one who has created this situation also comes up with the words that are supposed to be spoken. Let everything flow like this very beautifully. No trying to manipulate, no trying to maneuver, so the Self can play. Consciousness actually can play the role of a mother, of a child, of a beloved; all roles can be played very easily. Can the one who is running this entire universe not run your life? It is actually His life. This one that says 'It is my life' is a separate one that does not exist at all. Your life is whose problem?

His. Very good, very good.

In India, there were some questions on the YouTube chat as well. Lisa says, 'Father, there is seeing here like an ocean and the waves of person are crashing and crashing. I remain here in your life. I don't believe the waves, just seeing them crashing. I know nothing, nothing at all. I am at a total loss. Thank you for your love.' You have encouraged her, so maybe one of us can make some space for her for a few minutes and then when she's done, she can let you back in. Wouldn't that be okay?

Yeah, I'll go. I'm gonna have to leave early anyway.

Okay, my dear. Thank you so much. The virtual visa to join. Until Lisa joins, then we can look at the question that we had. So, Sangha said, 'I feel there is grievance here, a sort of victim identity since childhood in the war. It feels like this body, nervous system, and mind still respond to life as if it is still surrounded by war and I'm being attacked. Now I'm aware of this, I can often see how I react to situations based on nothing.' Well, you listen to different, but often like the reaction, it feels so strong in the body. Sometimes just existing feels dangerous.

Some of these energies are very primal, using what is called the fight-or-flight response. We must study about these things in psychotherapy. So all these things are very primary, and then as conditioning is happening, more of these experiences will happen and it becomes a programmed response to situations. This fight-or-flight response, all these kind of responses can come with us. And if you try to work at them, then it can take a lifetime to visit this conditioning, to work at it. Impulse buying person to see, okay, what happens instead here? What they're saying is that let all this play out if it has to. So if it feels like there's some dangerous situation, then the response is also coming, the impulse is also coming. If you try to control these, you see, this becomes counterproductive.

So although all of this could have got you to satsang, don't think that all of this now, because you are in satsang now, should just vanish finger-snap. But what will happen is that even if all this is playing out momentarily, you could find yourself getting engaged also in it, but you will find that even this you are unable to hold on to. And I'm hoping that in the future that this easing up must have started to happen. Especially if you had these experiences of war and things like that. In India also, there are children who experienced riot situations. Now, my family actually comes from this place—I was telling people that my family comes from this place which is the most riot-infected place in India, in Western UP, in Western Uttar Pradesh. There's this district which has the most riots. And all of this, the children there also, because they've experienced such horrific violence, they grow up with this conditioning. It happened.

Then you say, 'Now I am aware of this. I can often see how I react to situations based on this feeling of needing to defend myself, but often I cannot stop the reaction.' Yes, and we must not try to force too much this controlling how this body-mind is playing. Now, you see, keep it very simple. Just keep it very simple, and then all this will unravel on its own. That's why, like we were discussing earlier, if you just keep working at the level of belief and keep working in the now, don't worry about the past. Don't keep painting new pictures of how you behave and how you should behave and how life should be different. Just now. Don't leave the next one. You'll forget about this; everybody does. You think I am going about my life every moment saying 'I'm not going to believe my next thought'? No, it doesn't happen like this, you see.

So there will be thoughts which will be bought very quickly. Then now, don't believe it. Then it becomes natural. Then you don't even have to remember this as a concept: 'don't believe anything.' It's just now, now, just like this. It becomes like the inquiry also is instant, you see. When you say now, you don't even have to say now. It is now. I hope I'm making some sense. She has that expression like, 'What is he saying?' And it becomes natural. It becomes natural for us not to be picking up these thoughts. And momentarily something can get picked up still. I have not met a being—that's why I like to say that I have not met a being who does not pick up a single thought. There is nobody like this. Only in books we do.

Since last satsang, it's, I guess I believe these thoughts my mind had come up with saying that, oh, all of that is like an obstacle. So it's saying that that's an obstacle and I think I'm, yeah, there is some belief in that.

You bought it hook, line, and sinker. Not 'some' belief.

And without the belief, when it comes accompanied by these strong sensations in the body, I find it difficult not to believe it.

But I think what happened, when we let go of beliefs in a concept, then the mind tries to paint it as a picture of some sort of void or vacuum which seems uncomfortable. But actually, this is the emptiness which we are talking about. This is the beautiful neutrality which we are speaking about. You see, what the mind tries to scare you away from this and say, 'Oh, I would rather believe in this miserable thought than have no story at all.' This is the story of the mind. It wants it like this. Some story is better than this emptiness. The mind tries to convince you that there can be trouble without believing a thought, but I am telling you that it is completely impossible. Very good already. You are very good already because you're not referring so much to the mind now. It's really good.

But I just, the second I noticed, there is a feeling of like wanting to postpone, like, 'Okay, now. Okay, now I'm finished. I'll mute my mic and...'

Yes, it's the same one who wants to go to the next satsang or the next retreat. The next mirage. We were saying, you know, go to the next mirage. You're carrying all the water in the backpack that you have. That you feel that you have to walk to the next mirage because the mind is saying, 'Don't look at the backpack. Nothing. There's nothing there. It's just empty, void, void.' And all I'm saying is just open your backpack and check. All the water is already there. Don't need to go anywhere. So this world of appearances is just like this. This mirage doesn't exist, but it seems real nonetheless.

Thank you. This world of appearances is just like this. Seems so real. So real.

Just a play of these, just a play of Consciousness, just a play of these pencils. I know the mind will always say, 'But where's the party? You know, don't I get a certificate, a convocation, something? This course passed, the halo?' But that could only be required if there was ever a time when you were not free. And don't believe that something happens to you because you sometimes pick up these concepts that 'this happens to me' but then 'to me I'm not able to do this' and then 'I say to myself I will not react like this but when it happens I react like...' All this is not you. You cannot find the 'me' to which all of this is happening. It is just happening. All this is just playing out.

Everything that has happened to you seemingly has brought you to this point, you see. You must have heard of the butterfly effect and all these things. Talk about even the smallest movement in this realm can seem to cause a lot of change. So it must be that every instant in your life must be perfectly coordinated that you can be sitting in satsang just now. And if you're sitting in satsang just now, I can find no trouble with your life. And you yourself will say, many, most of you will say that it just happened by chance. 'I saw on Facebook something' or 'there was no inclination to click also something, but then it showed up in the feed and then I just clicked and I saw this.' See, this happens a little bit.

So even if we were to insert some duality in this, even if we were to say that there is a God and there's a you, then we can say that God does not want you to suffer, only wants you to be open to the truth. And if you open, if you're not resisting, then nothing, nothing, no trouble, no suffering. I feel you're doing very well. And don't Advaita-police me by saying 'Who now?' It's good for now, my dear.

Just, I don't know, I just have to watch it happening, I guess. It's just, anything could happen. Anything. It could be really strong. Even tears can come, you know, even physical pain. It can seem like, if you're just watching it, isn't it? You're just the awareness of it. There are lots of tears and feeling sick and absolutely no reason.

Yes.

It's just so good to be here with you, with the Sangha, and I feel so blessed and safe. I don't know, it's just that...

I like these conversations very much. You lose all our declaration, all our articulation is gone. You cannot say anything which makes sense. It's just always, it's just there. Not speaking with children. This is true, true communication then.

I thought it just arrives. It's just like, hello, happy hangover. I feel like you mean the hangout. I just don't know. I just don't know.

It's very good. This is very good. It's so beautiful to not know anything. 'Why is this happening to me? Why? What's happening?' Yeah, all that, all that. I just don't know. Enjoy this because, and get used to it. Don't pull back anything that you feel you need to know. All that you could know could be burnt in the fire of satsang, but the truth is unmoved, you see. You are still here. The holy presence is still here, and the absolute awareness of even this presence is not gone an inch. It is not moved an inch. Then what is the point of knowledge? Knowledge has no point. Don't need to know anything at all. Even the 'I', you know. Mind's going to grasp onto anything, anything please, like even like, 'What's the screen in front of me?' I just, wow.

And there could be some who will come to satsang for the first time expecting to know something or learn something. They're like, 'What? There is nothing.' All pointings, useful seeming ones, you won't even need to say 'don't believe your next thought.' Like, who needs to pick up even this?

There has been a long-time conditioning of wanting the one I am in a relationship with to be happy. Sadness has been arising because I see there is nothing I can do to affect happiness in another being. It sounds silly, but somehow so much happiness with him. So she said, 'There has been a long-time conditioning of wanting the one I'm in a relationship with to be happy. Sadness has been arising, of sadness, maybe some sadness has been arising because I see there is nothing I can do to affect happiness in another being. It sounds silly, but somehow so much sadness.' This is beautiful to see like this, and it is conditioning, like she has so beautifully said. It is conditioning that the other should also be happy, and it seems like my own happiness, my own peace, is reliant on this happiness of the other.

And if you see like this, it is very beautiful because then now, in the light of your seeing this, even conditioning cannot last. It's very good that all this can get unraveled. And then later you said, so he jumped up, he said, 'If there is any grievance, it could be that I am not fully accepting the one I am in relationship with appearing to be miserable or sad.' Yes, they have complete freedom. Complete freedom to be whatever they like. This play of Consciousness, Consciousness has full freedom to play whatever role it's playing. You refuse to believe any...

Now in the light of your seeing this, even conditioning cannot last. It's very good that all this can get unraveled. And then later you said, so he jumped up, he said if there is any grievance, it could be that I am not fully accepting the one I am in relationship with appearing to be miserable or sad. Yes, they have complete freedom. Lead freedom to be whatever they like. This play of Consciousness, Consciousness has full freedom to play whatever role is playing. You refuse to believe any thoughts, including about your most special relationship, and in this way it seems like in this relationship of two, at least one ego steps out of the equation. There are no two, but in this play of seeming two, then one ego steps out of the equation when we refuse to believe any thoughts about the relationship also.

Then he said, maybe it's my own happiness. You cannot have any sadness. Not you as Ramba, or not because you are in satsang, but you really cannot feel sad. The feeling of sadness can be there, but it can never be yours. So all feelings can be allowed to come and go, and you will find that you cannot see, you cannot find this one who owns this sadness. Cannot find the owner of this sadness. Just give the entire appearance complete freedom because you know what? The appearance is completely free already, because only your mind is pretending to have some effect or some control, which it does not. This is why these special relationships, although they seem to bring so much trouble, you see, they seem to bring so much trouble, but they are great teaching. They're great pointing towards the truth in every moment. That's why we don't prescribe any renouncing here, even of these special relationships. My advice only is to let God take care of all the relationships it has here, and there's so much strength in this freedom.

You see, by not resisting anything, then the ego play stops. In this world of duality, it seems like all these egos are playing with each other in this way. So one can come very, very miserable, expecting the other one to react in a certain way, but if you just leave that completely free moment to moment, no predictability of what is going to happen, then the ego also starts playing the game like this. There are simply now, now, fresh, nothing, nothing, nothing. It doesn't mean we tell them, 'Oh appearance, I'm not concerned about you.' Not like this. You don't have to become like this. This is inwardly knowing that you are just playing. Okay, Jeremy was saying something now. I say, Father never tell your special relationship, 'Oh, you're just an appearance, you were just my...' You'll be sleeping that night on the couch. That is level confusion. Although I am making a joke of it, the fact is that that is what is level confusion. If you understand inwards, but it's not meant to be like a sword to attack another person. Sorry, Jenny. Yeah, yeah, go ahead please.

No, very great, Father. I don't even know if when you say here and now it's nothing, it's nothing and there is nothing even really to bring. It's just a tendency that we notice that arises, and I don't even know if bringing it is making it something. I don't know. It's just really seen how this person, that identity, then when it arises, it's always around the grievance here. And there's one big thing, or seeming thing, where there's in a very special relationship where there's a perception that wrong was done, and there's hurt and there is anger around this. And it's just keep inquiring into who's angry, who is hurt, and there's nothing there. There's no one and nobody even. It just happened. Yet it's still arising and I just don't know if I just let it play out. Mind wants to make story about it, but it just keeps coming. And it's something very, very close to my heart, or whatever that means. I don't know. I don't know if that makes any sense.

But actually, when you said it's something close to my heart, it only means that it's something very important to my identity.

Thank you, Father. Yes, and it's linked to that need to be right, you know. Yeah, I just bring it all to you.

Very good. It's very good. And if something is telling you that all can be dropped but this one, you see, this one, how can you? This one is so important. This one then can be also inquired into and seen. And you yourself now are saying that I see that it happened to no one and nobody did anything. We're just playing out in this way like this. But something still wants to say that it was very close to my heart.

Yeah, something doesn't want to let it go. Something. And that's why I wanted to bring it, because there's huge resistance to drop it because there's such identity in it. And it's all mind. Cannot be identity without mind.

No, no, but first you want to be today. Yesterday when I said that we can all check and see if there are some grievances that are being held on to today, and then it's good to see that some identity tries to keep lingering here through the use of these grievances, through this feeling that, 'Oh, this was so unfair, this should not have happened.'

And it's, yeah, even while I'm speaking about it here now, I just want to look into it with you please, Father, because there's just such big resistance to look into this identity, well, seeming one, of who is so disappointed. And who is it? It's nothing there. There's a feeling of hurt and disappointment, but yeah.

Look if there's no one there. Yes. So where are the feelings? Where are the feelings? How are they appearing there?

It's a constriction in the solar plexus area, like a contraction. Very strong contraction.

It can be like a strong contraction like this. And where are you watching it from?

So it's just lots of... yes, that's also appearance. I can't say I'm watching it from anywhere. I'm just watching it. I'm aware of it, but I can't say. I'm aware of it.

And this awareness, where are you in relation to it? Again, look. I know you looked before, but you won't give it to your mind. Just look again. Where are you in relation to this awareness?

Sorry, just lots of... do you have time? Don't worry.

So let all that is appearing appear. There is an awareness of all these appearances. Very simply, we are just talking. Where am I in relation to this awareness?

But I don't want to go down that... I don't want to... that's just everything is blank right now, Father. But even that blankness is seen. No, I mean, just give me a minute. Sorry, if you have time.

Don't even worry.

No, I am that awareness. That awareness is what I am.

So this awareness is what you are. Then where is the appearance of all these things? How is it touching you?

It can't touch what I am. The appearance is like... sorry, I don't know if my dog is in front of the camera. The appearance is just like it... it doesn't even feel like the appearance is even really there. It's just like a seeming... well, I can say that the sensation, it's just like an energy.

And do you have any trouble with this energy? Are you concerned if it comes or goes?

No, no. It will be your voice which says this should not come, or this should have been done, this was... yeah.

And this one, you know what to do with now.

Yeah, yeah. It's that voice. I say this shouldn't be happening, you know, this, you know that. Like, it shouldn't be happening now, you shouldn't be whatever, this shouldn't be feeling this. Thank you. Thank you so much. Namaste. For others, she's just woken up so she's not very happy. So much love to you, my dear. It's all nothing, Father. It's all nothing. Sometimes it feels like just this old tendency to try and create something to have the experience of looking through it, you know, and seeing through it to be nothing, which is again, it's just mind.

Really good. Satsang is the place where you can bring nothing. It's probably the only place where we are allowed to bring nothing. To go to any other... he's just talking before, such a noise. Go to any other social interaction and say, 'I bring you nothing,' it's not accepted. And here it's very welcome. It's very welcome.

Thank you so much, Father. Another, I want to ask you questions. And sometimes there are people not wanting to give, only wanting to get. So I feel closed to them.

And what can you give them? What can you give them?

They don't want to give, only want to get. When I meet these people, I feel not balanced in my heart. I feel closed to them.

Who is this one? Who is the one who feels closed?

In this moment, I feel this one is imagined only.

In the picture, always only imagined. If it was real, it would be here now. What is real does not come and go. But in this moment, you can see that it was only imagined. Then even when it is seemingly real, it is not. It is always off and running in my mind.

It's all in the mind, you see. All the imagination is just in the mind. And if you don't believe it, then what trouble do you have? With this blank now, this person is only fiction, is only imagination. But sometimes it can seem so real and it seems like, 'Oh yes, yes, this is true. I don't like these people, they only want to take, take, they don't give.' This concept. There is nothing that I can give anyone and nothing I can take from anyone.

Sometimes when this happens, the mind will say, 'This person, in what way, in what aspect this person not give?' And in what aspect I give. I always this measuring, you see, how much they are giving.

Yes, this is the nature of the mind. It is the nature of the mind to behave like this.

But when I think about these things... don't think about these things. I feel not... I'm describing that moment when those thoughts are happening, comparing. I feel not comfortable in the heart, like I said, a burden.

Yes, yes, but only after you believe them. It's like clouds passing through space. Is going towards this energy is little going, it's coming. Let them come and let them go. But if you say belief, yes, then it becomes energetic. Yes, this is true. This is for me. Why does this one always behave like this with you? Why is my sister behaving with this or whatever?

Usually when this happens, I will let it go, but then it comes again. In the same way today, my sister wants me to translate her question in satsang. Before, I don't want to translate for her.

And I know how it is. I also grew up with a brother, you see. I grew up with a younger brother, so we have our moments like this. It's okay.

I don't want her to ask him for something or some need. I don't like this feeling.

This 'I', this 'I' must still go. The 'I' that is judging your sister also. Whatever she's asking for is my problem to deal with, not your problem with you. And how do you know I can't give her what she wants? Without you, we can't hear anything you're saying, Father. Yes, I did leave here. Just now I didn't hear.

We've lost our moderator. I'll just go and check what's happening with this Sharni. She might be able to get back in. We have about five minutes for her to get back in before we lose the hangout right here. Is it working now? It's better, Father, but not very well. I think it's breaking a bit. It's better and we'll get Laszlo's question tomorrow. Okay, thank you. My question is not finished. Father's posted on YouTube to stay to play invocations. Okay, all right.