Consciousness Is the One Cause and the One Effect - Feb.10, 2015

So let's look at this. You say that there's something that was troubling me in the body and then for some reason now there seems to be some relief from it and the mind is coming to try and use this also. See many times it happens like this. Many times it can happen like this. And it happens very often that someone will say we'll ask for something specific and I will most likely say that I cannot actually will anything specific here. There's no will here for anything specific to be asked. But there is this beautiful presence which somehow takes a hold of these prayers sometimes and they seem to happen. They seem to happen. The beautiful presence of consciousness, the I amness which is moving. Then sometimes these prayers seem to play out in that way. And then the mind tries to use this also. The mind tries to use this also in some way or the other. It will try to use this and say but are you getting attached to this relief? Are you getting attached to the fact that you might have understood something or you might be getting attached even to the concept that this was some sort of a miracle or something? You see all these things happen. That's why the pointing is always the simplest. Just don't buy any of this stuff.

You see, but if there's this feeling that something is happening to me, then also very simple. Where is the me? Can we find the me? It's just the it's collection of this body and mind the thoughts and feelings together. But yesterday it feels like there's now it feels like there's some something that is trying not to be a me or it's like a person trying not to be a person. No, what happens is that all it does through all of this resistance is just prevents you from trying to look because it knows that the instant you look you will not find this ego, you will not find the person. So all the thoughts will be like no no no I just want to know it I don't want to see you see I just should know it already by now there is no me should be a concept which should be clear so in this trying to have a concept which is already clear what is it that tries to prevent the inquiry? The inquiry is the simplest looking simplest am I aware now or who am I is that difficult? No, it's not difficult. And yet through times during the day, maybe during non-satsang times, you find great resistance to this simple inquiry, is it? He said, "No, no, no. This I know I'm awareness, but still something just the mind speaking all this can happen, isn't it?"

So as long as these resistances are appearing and this resistance appears as the mind pretending to know something. Now you see and if you give leverage if you give belief to this mind then this will become the spiritual ego. You must see and make sure that you're not buying any of this rubbish. Just to simply check. It says the mind says it feels like something is happening to me. So then you say okay let me check which me is it happening to? Take its word for anything and it's not effort actually the mind paints a picture of it as if it is some effort to do it is not effort it is just a simple looking. And in this simple looking I can guarantee you you will not find a me at least not a personal me. You might find the presence I am. You might find that there is a presence here which is unmoving and yet completely unassociated with any of the mind tricks whatever the mind might be saying. So to say that is me is fine but to say that they imagined me or they invented me is me is trouble. So don't even believe when it says oh but it sure feels like you know it sure feels like there is a me. It doesn't. It's just the interpretation of the mind itself.

So now it feel it's the sensation in again in the in the body. It's strong and that's what's drawing that oh that's that's more than the thoughts. It's that's what's saying oh that's me that's that feels like something happened there you know. Um and it's still it's the same reaction I had weeks ago. It's like that's feel offended when there's like oh there's no me and nothing happens like ah so let's find this energy now and let's hear it saying oh this is me this is the one that's talking no it's still the mind which is talking the energy might be pulsating you see it might be pulsating but it is the interpreter the trickster which quickly comes and says you see this energy is saying it's you me it's. Can you see like this? It plays the trick like this. It tries to make a correlation between what is felt energetically with this concept of personhood. But the energy is not happening to you and the energy is definitely not you. It might you might say it arises within you but you cannot say that it is you. If you were not then where would the energy be? Who wouldn't be here? So what comes first? You must be there and then all this energetic appearance can follow.

So you are still that you. You are still this pure awareness. You're the same as you were in the sleep state. You are the same as you were when this body was not born. And you will stay the same when this body goes also. Because it happens every night. Who are you in your sleep? There is something which says that there is nothing in sleep. Who knows this nothing also? Who knows there is nothing in sleep? And if it was not there in sleep, how does it know that there is nothing? So to you actually in reality it does not matter what appearance, what energy, none of it is actually happening to this real you. It is only the voice of the mind saying that this is happening to you. You don't have to make it more hard work than it is. It's the simplest thing. When you're trying to get something, you make it harder than it is. It is already here. The truth is here. I don't even want to say don't know because even that is taken as effort. You see suppose it was nothing. No pointing at all. Not even don't believe your next thought. Just nothing.

There's something very subtle inside that's still trying to get something. Yes, that can keep trying. But is it you? You are aware of it. But is it you? You say it's a part of me. It seems like it's a part of where where is it attached to you? In the body. Is where in the body is it also there? Can I find it? But you were saying also the other day isn't it that many times you say that oh this fear is in my heart but if you ask a biologist he'll say it's all happening in the brain. So where is it? It's an inter. Yeah, it's a it's a it's the mind saying something about another sensation. This is the mind. It's like we handed over our life to this three-year-old. This three-year-old who doesn't know anything but we've handed over our life to it and it says oh but this I want this I don't want this you see and it throws tantrums and does all sorts of things and you've given over all power to this one. It's always the simplest thing not to pick up any of this, not to pick up any of this mind stuff. There is no trouble now. You're working way too hard to find some trouble.

It feels very um in the moments when I acknowledge relief, it feels unnatural or it's it's so new that it it's it's like I oh it feels something feels like I don't know how to ex it feels different. Yes. There's no trouble that feels different. This one is playing a trick on you because even this one who wants to acknowledge relief is not you. Yeah, I think I I thought that was me because it's something I wanted for so long. Yes.

No trouble now. You're working way too hard to find some trouble.

It feels very, um, in the moments when I acknowledge relief, it feels unnatural or it's so new that it's like, I don't know how to explain it. It feels different.

Yes. There's no trouble; that feels different. This one is playing a trick on you because even this one who wants to acknowledge relief is not you.

Yeah, I think I thought that was me because it's something I wanted for so long.

Yes. And this 'I' who wanted—who was the one who wanted freedom also? Who is this one? What can you truly say is 'I'?

I feel I don't know right now.

Let's find out right now. Let's look. Who are you right now? What are the options? Okay, let's start easy. What are the options for what all you could be? Like this collection of sensations in the body?

Okay.

So, let's start with the easy options. Can you be this outer world which is outside the body? No. Okay. So that one seems clear. This body is just all the stuff you've eaten. It's just made up of all the stuff you've eaten, this one. And you don't truly believe that you are this. You don't truly believe it because the body is not, in this moment, is not saying anything at all. The body is just this innocent instrument unconcerned about whatever is happening.

It still feels like I see from inside here and everything is perceived from inside. So it's like there must be something in here that's me.

But where inside? Inside where are you?

Inside the head.

Yeah. Then when you go to sleep and you have a dream, you're inside where? Inside that head or still inside this head? Why does it seem like that? Because this nose is appearing and these cheeks seem to be appearing here and there seems to be something, there seems to be a 'me' sitting inside this. It's like visually it's being seen here.

Yes. It seems like it's the perspective from here, isn't it? Yeah.

But then if I were to really look, if I were to open up your head and see, okay, where do I find this person? Where will I find it? And you've seen that it's completely possible to have this perspective in different ways. So in the dream, you can have many dreams, many different bodies, many appearances, and it all seems like you're from here. And then sometimes when you have some meditative experiences, you can say, 'Oh, I had an out-of-body experience.' So my perspective changed and I was floating somewhere else and my perspective was completely from there. Is it like saying that I must be the virtual reality headset because it seems like, you know, the perspective is from that Oculus system? And actually, if you really—you heard me say, isn't it?—that if you really believe that you are this body, then complain as a body. What is the body complaining about? Just be the body. Just be only the body. Tell me what it's saying. Is the body concerned about any thought which is coming and going? Is the body really concerned about any thought? Then as the body, you can have no trouble. You see, if the body is not concerned about the thought, then who is? Thoughts. Yes. So a thought is concerned about another thought. See, but there is something.

Does the body have the power to believe the thought? Yes. In that, if I say I'm scared, then there's a reaction in the body that makes a reaction.

How about the reaction? There could be a reaction and then the thought could come 'I'm scared' or the thought 'I'm scared' could come and then the reaction could come. But how is the thought believed by the body? How is the body even listening to these thoughts? And how is the body deciding 'I will believe this' or 'I won't believe this'? How is it deciding?

If the body didn't believe the thoughts, say if I said, 'Oh, I'm scared,' and then I feel the reactions, then how is it creating those reactions?

Yes. So if you're presuming that the reaction was the result of the thought, I'm saying that they were two unrelated events. They were just in this appearance meant to happen like this to create the appearance of this body-mind having an individual existence. Because sometimes the reaction can come first and then you say, 'Oh, I must be scared.' Sometimes the thought comes first. Who can say? Just a series of unrelated events. But we say, you know what the fallacy is called? It's post hoc ergo propter hoc, which means just because something follows something, we say that it must be a result of that. So you're saying that suppose the thought came 'I'm scared' and there was no belief given to it, then no reaction would come. Is that your experience?

I don't know.

So this power of belief is much more primal; it is even prior to the body. Because when you wake up, there's the sense of waking up of a 'me,' of a sense 'I am,' and then this body. So it seems like 'I am this body.' First there is 'I am' and then there is 'I am the body,' not the other way. There must be 'I am' which is the body, and the body is completely not concerned. Who wants freedom? Does the body want freedom? Self-realization? Who wants to learn something new? Who wants to come to satsang or not come to satsang? Who is this one? You see, because ultimately, although we might say that I am the body, you actually have this feeling that 'this is my body.' It's with a sense of ownership that 'I own this body.' You do not really say that 'I am this body.' 'My body is like this, my body is like that. I wish my body would get better. What will I be when I leave this body?' We say like this, isn't it? If you truly, truly believe that you are just this body, then you know it has to end someday. So freedom for what? This body is there. This body won't be there one day. It's a very simple life. The body doesn't want anything. It doesn't want money. It doesn't want relationship. It doesn't want freedom. Even pain, the body is not saying it doesn't want, actually. I don't know if this is too subtle for you to see right now. But even the pain, the body is not resisting. It's still only the mind which is resisting. So I see no trouble. If you really firmly believe you are the body, then very good. No trouble. Then tell me the problem.

It wouldn't be.

So ultimately we must see that there is this concept of 'me' that I have believed, this idea of 'me' as a person who is concerned about so many things. We've not said this in a while, but the person is just a bunch of ideas, a bunch of concepts. 'I'm like this, I'm artistic, I am this way, I'm nice, I'm honest.' All this is what? From where? Just ideas, isn't it? The body is not concerned with any of these. But it seems like the person idea is just made up of these small, small ideas which have been put together to construct in the mind, to construct the idea of a person. So if you were an artist and I were to say your paintings are just horrible—suppose you were an artist and I were to say your paintings are just terrible—no, it would pinch you, isn't it? But the body is not affected by how the paintings are. So what is getting hurt by it? It is only this sense of identity. And suppose that you had no identity around being an artist. It doesn't matter if you say the paintings are horrible. So who is this one? It's just a clump of these ideas or identities. And as long as you're not picking up any of these ideas, it's fine. So if you tell me that 'I'm convinced I'm the body,' no problem. But I know it cannot be so, otherwise you would not be in satsang.

It feels like, um, now this is—it feels like there's a sensation of being a bit disoriented.

Yes. Yes. This wobbliness can be there. This wobbliness can be there because, like I say, it seems like I don't have legs to stand on. Now it's a little uncomfortable because earlier what used to happen is I used to feel troubled about something and I could quickly pick up a concept. See, even a concept like 'don't worry, things will become better.' Many times it happens like this. You see, many come to satsang expecting me to say, 'Don't worry, everything will become better.' But I don't say like that. It's just feeding another concept. We are not waiting for the appearances to get better. We are waiting just to see if you are something which can be affected by better or not better. So this is freedom. So this wobbliness, it can seem a little uncomfortable. It can feel a little bit disorienting to begin with.

I actually feel very strongly like I want to go and vomit.

Yes. Because this much I've not seen so far. Yeah. But I've seen this—it feels like my head is going to explode or my body is going to explode. I've seen those. This vomiting thing is a new one for me. We'll add that to byproducts of satsang. So these feelings can be there, these feelings can come. But this freedom that we are speaking of is not relying on even these feelings. The presence or absence of any feeling—awareness is not concerned by it. What's it say?

Yeah. It's just that it's like if I—it feels like I can't hook to the body and then it just feels like...

Yes. But then don't pick up this 'I.' This 'I' who can't hook to the body—don't pick up this one who's saying 'I can't hook to the body.' Not consciousness and not the awareness; it's still only the mind. It can be tricky like this, tricky like this.

I just want to run away.

This one, this 'I,' this one will make you run away. That's all it can offer you right now because it's stuck now. It's stuck. Badly stuck. Obviously, the mind will want to run. He's being crushed. You see, he's being crushed to pieces. All his dominance is now seen to be nothing at all. It has been revealed that the emperor has no clothes on. So the emperor will want to run only. We had this whole make-believe thing that the emperor is wearing the best clothes. But now you have exposed it. So what will this false emperor want to do? It'll only want to run. There's something very deep about the story. You see the collective delusion that all of us seem to have to give this person a reality. And then a young child in innocence says, 'But no, he has no clothes on. There is no person.' Yeah. It's true like that; there is no person.

It's like, it feels like, 'Oh, now I have to let go of my grievances.'

You must—don't let go. Okay? Don't let go of your grievances. Just let go of the 'I.' Just let go of this 'I' that doesn't want to let go of the grievances. Then the grievances can stay. Let's see how long they last. This 'I' is purely imagined. It's just fiction. Tell me one thing which is truly tangible about this 'I.' See the irony in that. So you cannot find one thing which is tangible about this 'I.' But still we dance to all the tunes of this 'I.' 'I want this. I don't want this. I want my grievances. I don't want something else.' It's all like this. You can find nothing about this 'I.'

There's a feeling of a bit like, right now, of squirming.

Yes. But you can't rely on feelings also. Just like you can't rely on any thought. Let the feeling come, let the feeling go. But see that you are just a simple awareness which is untouched by this feeling also. Because if you try to control your state, nobody can control your state. Which feelings come? Which feelings go? And if your freedom is going to be dependent on feeling, then what kind of freedom would that be? What will convince you that you are free? What should happen? How are you bound right now? Who feels that they are bound? Let's see if you can find any bondage in this entire satsang. So not to be dependent on any state. The state of the body, the state of feelings, the state of emotions, the state of thoughts. If you keep relying on these states, then how will it? Do you feel that the ones, the bodybuilders, the best bodies, best in shape bodies—do you feel that they are free from suffering? It doesn't happen like that. If they are the body, then they are the best bodies, best in shape. Why are they not free? Because they have some other desire, they have some other want. And you yourself said, 'Okay, body seems to be getting better, but now the mind is being tricky again.' I see you and I see freedom. But I can't control what you believe.

How will it? Do you feel that the ones, the bodybuilders, the best bodies, best in shape bodies—do you feel that they are free from suffering? It doesn't happen like that. Why? If they are the body, then they have the best bodies, best in shape. Why are they not free? Because they have some other desire, they have some other want. And you yourself said, 'Okay, body seems to be getting better, but now the mind is being tricky again.' I see you and I see freedom. But I can't control what you believe. Who are you without your belief? Who are you without any story? And the rest of you, don't nod off. I'm not just speaking to her. I'm speaking to everyone.

Something wants these three rotating states to stop. We were talking about lokas and all earlier. So something wants this to stop. Now do understand that, you know, that which wants it to stop is itself a delusion which is absent in the deep sleep state. But unmanifest awareness is not concerned with appearance anyway because for it there was never an appearance. But still, sometime this feeling comes, you know, then this thought comes that, you know, as long as this body is there, you know, this rotation has to continue in a detached way. But no, actually it's the body which is part of this cycle, isn't it? So when this seeming waking state, dream state, whatever it is comes, then the body is there. Body is not there when the other state is there. Maybe this is the last day for this body. How do you know? Not in the sense that something is going to happen, some accident or something. I'm just saying that suppose that it just seems like I have been in this body. This body itself is, you know, an appearance in consciousness.

Yes. Yes. And it could be completely fresh. We don't land up in a dream and say, 'Oh, this is a new body.' It seems like it's familiar, okay? Because that is just being projected that way. Consciousness has no trouble projecting even past memories. You land up in a dream and you seem to have a family and you know everyone and everything is fine. It seems like the functioning of memory is also happening. You don't take like a few days to orient yourself to the dream and say, 'Who are these people?' You don't start a dream in an amnesia state. Already it seemed like some memories are there. We recognize the ones that are there also. So it could be that this body is completely fresh right now. But conversationally, yes, we can say that as long as the body is there, then these states will seem to rotate like this. Okay. But something wants this to stop. That something is just the same monkey. I cannot cater to the whims and fancies of this one because it is only setting yourself up for some frustration. When you as awareness, as consciousness, actually want this to stop, it is stopped. It is only your light which is bringing light to this. You want this delusion, illusion, whatever you call it, to be over? It's over. Even the birth of consciousness will not happen. That's what you see. So all this ultimately for you as the Supreme, it is all your will. But for you as a person, nothing can be your will.

The appearance of consciousness. Yes. Can that stop?

Yes. It stops every night. It stops. And how do you know how much time is there when it stops? There is no time. So it could be—it doesn't mean anything because we could say it's millions of years before the waking state comes back, or we could say that no time passed at all. The same thing, because there is no time. Time appears with the birth of consciousness and it must be something which feels like something, some entertainment is needed, Leela is needed. So it comes like this. That's why it's a joke, isn't it? That if I'm all there is, simple awareness, then this tiny mad thing must have come from somewhere. Let's have some fun or something. You never know. You cannot explain this. So although ultimately you can say that none of this has ever really happened, but in the play, it sounds kind of hypocritical to say that, but you have not moved. You are exactly what you are in your sleep state. In the presence of the sleep state, what you are is the same as what you are now.

I leave it to the Guru.

Yes, this one. This consciousness itself is the Guru. This one will be very tricky like this. Okay, let me see what button I can push now which will have some juice or sounds interesting because you're interested in these kind of, you know, deep things and sometimes the esoteric stuff also gets you. So this nice combo, this rotation should stop—it will stop when you truly will it to stop and you're done with the Leela. The Leela will stop, but not you as a person coming into the picture. It's part of this for the person. So usually we don't get too much of that because what is it? Some law that controls the quality of which thought will come next? Is it coming from your prarabdha pool or whatever? How does it matter? Now we may not believe in our thought itself. It can be whatever. That's why it is said, isn't it, that when you come to true Satsang in the presence of your Master, then your karma is cut off? In India it is very popular to say. Why? Because now you're not dancing to the tunes of these thoughts. A lot of holes you can dig in that theory also. So you could get into it because anything you try to explain from a personal perspective, the problem is: how does it start? There must be some starting. There's never a person, never a person. What is the root of karma? So all cause and effect is consciousness itself. So I say that consciousness is the one cause and the one effect.

Father, can I say something? Yes, my dear. I'm just moving away. One moment. Can you hear me? All right. Yes. Okay. Um, I've got a sick daughter at home and when my children get sick, it's great Satsang. And it's great Satsang because it brings up very strongly belief, and it shows a lot of thoughts are believed and an identity develops. And this is something I really want to look at with you. Like a hologram, that nothing is really happening and nothing ever really happens. Thoughts are believed in and then it's almost—it's then this dreamlike appearance, and then when that's bought into, the identity forms and it feels really real.

What if I were to tell you something more simple? What if you were just to say that it's completely fine to have the mother identity? Yeah, I don't want to go head-to-head against the mother identity. It's very primal. It's very, very even—we said earlier that even the animals have it, that a small animal will fight with an elephant or a lion if it attacks the children.

And that's—it's more the fear of losing my child, the fear of she's got a very high fever. You're going to lose her and then there is another separate person that's going to lose another person. And that's where the inquiry comes. And with my first meeting with Mooji Ji, I don't even know how to articulate this, but on the plane home everything disappeared and there was this thought, 'What about my child?' And all of a sudden this contraction and this identity. And so somehow it almost feels like—but what happened? Nothing, nothing happened.

You see, some of you were there in Satsang, we had in-person Satsang the other day, and my daughter came and said that we have to take Bhaiya—that means big brother—to the hospital. Even I got up and left very quickly. But what really happened to me? Nothing. But the role of father can happen. So what?

Yeah. I see. I see. Like there's a story that's been held that because there's this mother identity, somehow this fear comes up around losing my children because I'm projecting the fear of disappearing completely. But that's just—it's just another story.

It's yes. And the reason why I'm saying it like this today is that I can see that you've created a vicious circle out of it. You see, you created this out of it. So the mother thought identity is coming, and then a strong identity is coming which says the mother identity should not be there then. So first let's get rid of this identity which says the mother identity should not be there. Then the mother identity will not feel so burdensome, so heavy. So the mother identity is competing with the free person identity. So now I remove the free person identity from it. Now what happens?

It's okay. It's just completely—I didn't hear you, Father.

I said it's completely okay. Once we remove this free person identity, then one hand out of the two hands is removed. Then it cannot clap. You're just watching with wonder. Then it's 'mother is coming.' Okay. Watching. You're not resisting it. You see, even this you're not resisting.

Yeah. And the fear that arises, that also just arises.

Yes. Yeah. It's the same story because I know for you, you already know that this awareness is untouched by all of this. The appearance and the disappearance of identity is not doing anything to the pure awareness which is there. When you pick up this identity of being a free person now or a spiritual person now, that's when all this trouble comes. And this identity of, this idea that somehow something needs to disappear to substantiate kind of my realization, that somehow that experience of 'there is nothing' needs to be continuous, and being in a continuous state of the experience of nothingness, and somehow that this—I don't know—that somehow something needs to disappear and then a whole story around that. But then it seemed that whatever appears or disappears, it makes no real difference anyway.

Yes. It's just another story. Very similar to what she was saying. You see, although it doesn't maybe sound so same, but it's pretty much the same. It's like we bought tickets to this movie. We're inside the movie and we're going up and down and enjoymentful this thing, but something is saying, 'Oh, this movie should stop. This movie should stop.' If the movie is—you can decide to leave the movie anytime actually. You as consciousness, you as the Supreme God will turn it off like this.

You know, Father, I love the movie. There is a love for this movie. There is a love for—it's like ultimate savor, you know.

So you truly don't want the movie to stop. So while the movie is here, just enjoy it.

Oh, I love you so much. Oh, I love you too. Oh, I love you so much, Father. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.

The ego is like this movie critic who doesn't like any movie. Married to every movie but still keeps going. That's the profession it chose: the movie critic. You see, it chose this profession but then hates every movie. It wants to go, wants to leave the movie, but doesn't want the movie to be over. Yes. Exactly. Thank you. Thank you.

Good evening, Father. Good evening. How are you? I'm very good. Good to see you here. All your grace. Deep inside there is a strong sense of feeling that, you know, I'm that and it's all a play and it's all an appearance. And when these appearances get strong and one tends to identify the person strongly, then deep inside there is again a feeling that, you know, this is all an appearance and this is a play. Back and forth thought or back and forth thing that's been going on. Then a strange thought arose like, isn't it that—I mean, is it a mind play that just doesn't want to take the responsibility of any action? And whenever it wants things done through its own way, it just wants to say, 'Okay, fine. I mean, you are a part of the movie, you're just an appearance,' and then probably, you know, just take off the blame from the shoulder. So it just wants to, whenever it wants to save itself, it's a movie, it's an appearance, you are that only. But otherwise it very strongly wants to identify itself as a person and it has the ego and it has—it wants to take credits and what and what not.

Yeah. Yes. This one I know very well. This one I know very well and I also had this period of time where I was very, as a person, very egoic, very arrogant in my spirituality and I used to use all these concepts, used to use all these concepts just as a sword to attack other people.

Save itself? It's a movie. It's an appearance. You are that only. But otherwise, it very strongly wants to identify itself as a person, and it has the ego, and it wants to take credits and what not. Yeah.

Yes. This one I know very well. This one I know very well, and I also had this period of time where I was very, as a person, very egoic, very arrogant in my spirituality. And I used to use all these concepts just as a sword to attack other people. Some of you know this, right? So there used to be this strong arrogance there that anyone would come to me with some trouble, I would say, 'It's just Maya. What is it? It's like this.' But then when life is so kind that it gave me a lot of suffering—it's so kind that it gave me a lot of suffering—and all this arrogant mental conceptual understanding was washed away completely. I realized it's completely useless if it is not a living experience in this moment. If it is not clear in this moment, then all this mental understanding, knowledge... it could be the most spiritual. I could have learned the entire Ashtavakra, but it has no value because when life slaps you, then none of this helps as a mental concept, you see.

So then, very happy when this kind of question comes. Is this clear to you, or are you just using this as an excuse? First, it's very good that you're already contemplating this. It's very good, you see. So the question comes: are you just using this as an excuse? Are you trying to run away from your responsibility by just saying it's just happening on its own? You see, so you use that to say, 'Okay, who is this person here who has responsibility? Can I find anything at all about this person?' Like Satanga and I were having the same discussion, isn't it? That basically there was this feeling that this body is the person, and then we sort of demolished that concept by looking at the body as a very simple, innocent instrument who is not asking for anything. But there is this sense of personhood which has desires, it has aversions, it has likes, it has dislikes. Who is this one? Can you find any tangible existence of this one? And it is this voice itself which will say, 'Now you are just avoiding the real world by listening to satsang. You're just avoiding the real world.' So what can you tell this voice? You can tell this voice, 'Please show me your reality.' See, it is saying that you're avoiding the real world. So just ask this voice, 'Can you show me your reality?' What does it show?

It feels like when there's an introspection and when you know there is kind of this logical argument when that's present in the mind, there's a layer of storm, a very strong storm that starts arising from within. Like, you know, there will be a lot of disturbance within the body and, you know, it just wants to... the mind wants to, you know, blow away and it just wants to get yourself occupied with one thing or the other. I mean, you just can't stay, you know, in that situation or in that environment thinking about or at least, you know, just arguing about this particular concept. Like the moment this whole thing gets revealed, the mind game or the trick gets revealed, it just, you know, wants to disturb you completely. And I don't know, the sensations within the body, the sensation within the mind, different kind of energies I start feeling. I don't know what it is.

And if you make it like a battle of concepts, a battle of ideas—you're using ideas against other ideas—then it's just the mind which is playing this trick and it's convincing you that some sort of a spiritual journey is happening. So that is why I'm not having any... I'm not asking you to believe any ideas. I'm just asking you to see what is here right now. Just simply see. Don't use knowledge. Don't have any knowledge. Forget about all that you've heard. Just simply see what is here right now. Can you find the person right now?

All I can say is I can find this body and there's a message that has been communicated to this body. And inside there's a deep feeling that I am within and without. I mean, when I close my eyes, is it the one that I'm seeing or the one that is seeing actually? You know, if appearance is that body, so there is mental understanding and there's a feeling of that as well.

But somewhere, don't complicate it and bring the mental understanding into it. Just keep the mental understanding away for some time and just look. So you said, yes, there is this body here. There is this appearance of this external world here. There is a witnessing of this external world. There's a witnessing also of the body. Then when the senses are closed, then there is a witnessing of thoughts, there's a witnessing of emotion, and I seem to be not separate from this pure witnessing itself. And you tell me, is that not your experience right now?

I see that's exactly the experience.

So this pure witnessing, this awareness itself, must be what I am. And for this, there is no knowledge, no mental concept, nothing required to check this. And then we say, but some state comes, some feeling comes, some thought comes. You see, but does it really take me away from being awareness into something else? When I check, I find no, it doesn't. That's why we call it the appearance. That's why we call it the appearance. So then we see that there is this awareness and then there is the appearance of whatever it might be, but I am unmoved from this pure awareness itself. It's like this. As simple as that. I can't hear you, my dear. I think you're on mute now.

I'm saying the feeling is clear, but mind wants to label it. Mind wants to know it. I'm closing my eyes and I know I'm not that hand. I'm the one who is witnessing the hand and the one who is actually hearing myself out and the one who is, you know, hearing you out. And even if my eyes are closed or my eyes are open, the thing is still there. So it's pretty, pretty evident. It's pretty evident what exactly, you know, who am I? It's pretty evident, but then mind wants to think about it. It wants to, you know, have a photo about it and wants to label it.

This who you are, this awareness, is it concerned about what the mind is saying?

It is absolutely not, but mind is throwing a kind of a picture thing and then it starts picking it up. You let go of one concept, it brings another concept. You let go of the other concept, it brings a third concept, and you can even feel it picking up and, you know, letting it go. So that awareness is again there. You know that it is getting picked up and when you, you know, let it go, you know you're letting it go. But all of that, I don't know, mind still wants to interpret, it wants to, you know, think about it.

The mind will only do it. The mind will only do it. But as long as you can admit that in reality I'm unconcerned... can we at least admit that in reality what I am is unconcerned? You said it's very apparent. It's completely evident what I am. Well, this what I am, is that concerned with anything that the mind is saying?

You also said no. Therefore, the only trouble... therefore the only trouble that you could testify to is the trouble of the mind itself. But it is not concerned as long as it is not picking up anything. So there would be a hundred appearances; for ninety of those it is not concerned and there is a laughter, there is that feeling that it's a kid's play going on and it's unconcerned because none of that is true. And the knowledge and this, it starts growing up, it starts, you know, the peace starts gearing up, but then again it'll pick up something and the person gets identified and then the whole process, you know, again starts and it will take you away, you know, it'll take you away in a business way. It'll take you away from something which seems very important, but inside again that, you know, the thing is going away, that's not for real. So I don't know. I mean, on the mind's level it sounds pretty confusing, and if you, you know, keep aside your mind then probably... I mean, that's what you really are. And even if you pick up the mind, that's only what you really are. But then mind wants you to be identified as a person. The mind wants that Vikas understood it. But the reality is as long as there is a Vikas, there is no understanding. So yeah.

So like inside of that, the James Bond game is only programmed to convince you that you are James Bond. Just because you start coming to satsang, it will not say you are now God or something. And if you expect the program to change, then that is a completely different thing. Here it's very simple. As long as you're not believing your next thought, then you see it's completely clear what you are. Why did this thought get picked up? I don't know. It's just so funny because they have been nourished. You see, these identities have been nourished over long periods of time. Many lifetimes these identities have been nourished. So it seems like it takes some time before most of these trees die out of malnutrition.

It's like you got it and you don't want to believe that you have it. It's very good that you don't believe you have it because this is... but it wants to address you as a person, that this person has it. Yes. So that's again the feeling that is inside that, you know, as long as you're believing that, you know, this would be understood by a person, that's again what mind is. So and you are actually seeing at it, you're looking far behind and but then all of that, you know, troubles within a life and anger, other things, you know, reveal itself and then this mind starts arguing. 'No, you are a person and that's why it happened. Had you been that seeing or had you been that witness witnessing, then probably I mean you wouldn't have done that because you would have known everything and you know that mind game.' How did you get identified? So it's kind of a keep on playing, keep on throwing. Sometime, you know, as a person I get identified and sometime it's just like I laugh at it and okay fine, I mean, you play, you do your game. And so that's why, you know, I brought up a question that it is still the mind that is, you know, making it feel like that, you know, just not to take the responsibility of whatever actions I'm doing or whatever things I'm, you know, projecting. Or is it anything real? Just the mind. Just for the five minutes I'm like in front of you, I can say that with 100% conviction that mind is not there. The mind doesn't want to know anything and it's a pure silence. There is not even a ripple. It's a pure silence and you know, it's very evident what we are talking about.

Yeah. Good. So now that you're back in Delhi, you can come for satsang. It's good. And you're coming to Rishikesh also, isn't it?

Yeah, I'm coming on 17th.

17th. Very good. So I'm there 15th onwards anyway.

Oh, I thought you were on 17th. So I'll try it on 15th then.

Okay, very good. Very good. 15th to 22nd most likely. See you there. Thank you. Thank you so much. Thank you so much. Oh, I saw Cornelia in the hangout for some time for the first time. Now she says lost connection. Do you want to try again, my dear? Maybe we can make some room for her. We just wait for her to say on YouTube. If she wants to try again, we'll make some space. Okay, there's a lot of chat on YouTube. So I read through all of it and hopefully what has been spoken in satsang today has really helped with all of these that you have pointed out. But if there's something which is still strong, you can type it and we can look at it. Okay, Cornelia is back. Very good. Let's see if your video works, my dear. Yes. Yes, it does. Very good. Do you hear me?

Well, I don't hear you. I see you, but I don't hear you now. Can you hear me now? Can you hear me?

Yes, a little bit. Can it be a little louder?

Can you hear me now?

Yes. Very good. Very good. Can you hear me?

Yes. You have to pause your YouTube because your YouTube is also playing. You cannot hear me.

I can hear you. I can hear you.

You can hear me?

Yes. Yes. Very well. Yes.

You hear me, Father?

Yes, my dear. Yes. Yes.

Video works, my dear. Yes. Yes, it does. Very good. Do you hear me? Well, I don't hear you. I see you, but I don't hear you now. Can you hear me now? Can you hear me? Yes, a little bit. Can it be a little louder? Can you hear me now? Yes. Very good. Very good. Can you hear me? Yes. You have to pause your YouTube because your YouTube is also playing. You cannot hear me. I can hear you. I can hear you. You can hear me? Yes. Yes. Very well. Yes.

You hear me, Father? Yes, my dear. Yes. Yes. I'm so happy to see you. Me, too. Oh, I'm sorry. I'm sorry. Completely okay. I waited so long for this moment. Completely. I don't know what to say. Yes. I'm sorry. Um, I asked my son to fix the Hangout before he gone to school and after that I saw that I was in his account and I tried to switch the account and then I lost the Hangout. Yeah. I'm sorry, my English is not very good.

It's very good. It's very good. It's very good.

I can't hear. You can't hear me now? Oh, did you? Yes. Yes. Not. Yes. Yes. Now. Yes. Okay. Father, I want to thank you so much. Uh, there was a moment and I didn't realize if I mean Hangout or I am not in Hangout or this Hangout is today or it was today or I don't know, maybe not so clear what I must say.

Yes. No, no, I understand. It's very good that you're here inside the Hangout now. It's very good. We haven't really interacted so much since Ustream days, isn't it? Ustream chat, we used to interact more.

I tried once but my tried once it come in in hell but the mic was wasn't good.

Yes. Okay. This is not so important. I am so happy that you are here.

Well, you you are always here um with me in my heart. I feel I can touch you. I can hold in my arms. Thank you very much. I hope I don't say silly things.

No, no, no, no, not at all. I love when you say I said I love it when you say silly things.

I can I can It's not so good sound. That's a good sound. Okay. Okay. Thank you so much, Father. Oh, so much love to you, my dear. I think I'm dreaming, but for sure I'm dreaming. But it's such a beautiful dream. You in front of me.

Oh, so much love to you. You're always with me. Always with me. Thank you so much.

Maybe I exercise my English and next time I will say more more things and more.

Your English is not bad. It's very good. No troubles with not bad.

Thank you so much. I I want to say more but maybe there are who want to ask you some more important things.

Oh, you're always welcome. Always welcome to say. If something feels in your heart you want to say, you can always say.

Okay. Thank you. Thank you so much for being so spacious. I'm very very I love you so much Father, so much. Thank you. Thank you. I used to be with YouTube recognition of I am temporary after I met you. I messed it all up. There this this after I met you you know it's gravitating towards I am not I am not and you know it's even more beautiful just that even this beautiful presence of being I am the awareness even of that and there is nothing phenomenal so you can say I am not like.

Okay, there's a question on YouTube. Danielle says, "Namaste, Father. There is a question. When you ask, are you aware now? There is awareness and there is a body mind. Is this identity going to resolve itself by staying as this?" This is very good. And you ask are you aware now? There's this awareness of awareness. And if there's also awareness that the body mind is there but then it's already been resolved, isn't it? It is clear that I am this witnessing even of the body. The body is not aware of me. I am aware of the body. Like the external world is not aware of me. I am aware of the world. The body is not aware of me. I am aware of the body. My thoughts are not aware of me. I am aware of the thoughts, emotions, everything. All the appearances I am aware of them. They are not aware of me. Then nothing needs to happen. Then the mind comes and says but you must stay in this. You must stay in this. And I want to tell all of you that you cannot leave this. You cannot leave this even if you try with all your might to become something other than awareness, you cannot come. So simply it is seen that I've always been this and I can only be this. So who has to stay as what? So actually just see if you can become something else other than this witnessing. Can you become something else other than the awareness? You will find that it is not possible. The mind will say yes yes you must abide in this now just stay as awareness. How can you not stay as awareness? That's why I say that even if for another million lifetimes you believe that you are a person, you're actually only the awareness. Nothing real has changed. So don't try to stay as something. See if you cannot be this. The only thing that causes trouble is this naughty interpreter mind. It tries to convince you, tries to trick you into believing that you are a person. And that's why we have the simplest pointing which is don't believe your next thought. But it must be said that even if you were to believe all of your thoughts doesn't mean that anything real has changed about you. You are still only the awareness alone. So don't even pick up that one which wants to stay as something. It is not the voice of awareness. You are that. You have always only been that and you can never become anything else. Okay. So, Tara wanted to come in and there is a space now. You can come my dear. Joti is back with us from her trip from China. She's back now. Good, good, good.

Father, I I want to ask something. Yes. I have a situation I have inquired for a long time. Still a little suffering and attaching in it. It is when I feel panic and anxious if the neighbor make some noise when I'm when I go to sleep. Before I had a lot of suffering in this but now it is only only a little when I heard some noise from my neighbor in the hey there there there are there is some anxiety some panic happening. So can you say something about this?

It's very funny actually that my mother also had this problem just a few days back where the upstairs neighbor was making too much noise late in the night, you know. So my mother has this sister, so she spoke to her and she said when they make the noise, you also take a stick and you bang it up, you know. So that's what she does now because they refuse to stop. They've complained many times. So they make a noise now. Tuck tuck. And so my mother will also take the stick and make a noise. Tuck tuck. And with this it has stopped. So you might want to buy some heavy some something which makes a lot of noise.

I I don't know if if this is my attaching in Chinese medicine they say we must sleep before 11:00 p.m. This time before this is a good sleep time. If you after the after this time the sleep will be not good and the health the health will be not good. So after this time when I I hear some some noise they are still still active moving or a lot of noise. Yeah I I feel very panic and the body is like there is a tight in body and I cannot sleep and sometimes even after after they are quiet I I will have a lot of time to adjust.

So according to the Chinese philosophy, I'm leading a very unhealthy life because I usually sleep these days at 1:30 or 2:00 a.m. because there's some work that needs to get done and I have a lot of reading to do for my work. So and in China time that is what 4:30 a.m. your time. So, so I don't feel there's anything to this but but it should not be that okay just because you are spiritual you should now be like sheep you know. So if somebody's making noise and you feel like sleeping and they can just make the noise but I am spiritual so I should not tell them something. It's not like this. If the urge is there to go and say that you know you better stop it's late, you just go and tell them better stop it's late.

I have I have told them for several times. I I but this this seems to be this seems not not work. I I find that these things this kind of things always often happen happen to me when I go to a hotel. These things often happen. My mind will say why why this happened to me?

Then it seems like that for some that this is their sadhana, you see. It seems like this is their sadhana that they always encounter the same sort of situation. And I also see like this the situations could be different but it seems like in one particular life the same type of situations keep repeating. Then this is your sadhana, just don't resist and see what happen. Let it come. It's only what we resist that persists. You see, you understand what I'm saying? Yes. That persist. So if you've done everything, you've made a police complaint, you've called the cops, you've tried everything, nothing is working, then just forget about it. Let life take care of you. Then it's God's problem.

Some sometimes is also saying something about the same thing. Where I stay a lot of dogs. So you know actually 1:00 a.m. and 2 a.m. in the night they will start to decide to have a party. Yes. And they'll start howling all together and you know you can't go and tell them stop howling. So how I dealt with it is that you know you know it is Shiva who's doing it. He's playing with me. He's trying to offend me. You have to like this. Let me you know just fully accept and I'll not get offended. And it really work though it happens but I'm not bothered by it. Right. It's like once we were staying in Tiruvannamalai, very peaceful place you know some of you have been to Tiruvannamalai when I'm alive. So you know so we were staying in Shiva Sannidhi Ashram and there was this rooster that would start cooking at 3:00 a.m. okay like an alarm clock at 3:00 a.m. it would start you know full cock-a-doodle-do coo whatever whatever it is. So first few days we got like what's happening you know what's then after the third day we just like part of some music that is playing in our sleep and you know you can do nothing about it then it stops troubling so much there just this feeling that I must do something about it you cannot do anything about that rooster I can't imagine going out and chasing one rooster at 3:00 a.m. in the morning.

So so some sometimes I will say to myself I can I can trust God fully but I find I cannot trust fully.

Yes. Yes. You won't make any judgments based on this situation. Don't believe any interpretation of this situation. It is just that it is noisy and you don't get sleep. It mean nothing else.

Ah yes because in anything that you believe like this it'll create some concept of a person that you are and some concept of a person that you should be. You're not interested in any person. So don't believe any interpretation any judgment about yourself. No I I I don't believe that. I just find that I cannot do I cannot trust fully.

Who who is this guy who can't trust? Yes, I know. I was trying not to do that. Yes. Yes. Sometimes it needs to be said.

So sometimes I feel helpless.

Yes. About this. I can do nothing. Yes. This feeling of helplessness sometimes is very good. Sometimes is very good because it takes away from arrogance. It takes away from complacence. Good to feel helpless. Sometimes you realize then in these moments of helplessness that we cannot control anything in our life. We only pretend to control something.

When when I check check in hotel, I will choose choose which which room is quiet and then but this is the very one. I then the same thing happened again.

I was just telling someone the other day, maybe Anandi I was telling her, that where I live now is very close to the old airport where the old airport used to be and when I moved to Bangalore then the airport was not so active but as it went along as time went along became very active. So couple of minutes every 2 minutes there would be a flight which is taking off. But because we were living here we would not hear the plane also.

But this is the very one. I then the same thing happened again. I was just telling someone the other day, maybe Anandi I was telling her, that where I live now is very close to the old airport where the old airport used to be. And when I moved to Bangalore, then the airport was not so active, but as it went along, as time went along, it became very active. So every two minutes there would be a flight which is taking off. But because we were living here, we would not hear the plane also. We were just used to it. There are many people who live next to railway lines, live next to very noisy places, but they don't hear. And then she was saying that Mooji Ji mentioned to her that he came to my place and stayed, and he asked me, 'So don't you hear this plane?' When someone new comes, they will hear because they're not used to the noise. So then he organized such that the airport only moved from here.

Yes. Sometimes I met some person, their sleep is so good. The surroundings always is no problem for them.

The body will sleep and it really needs to sleep. Then no amount of noise will keep it from sleeping. You see, Anandi also struggled when she came to India. She's like, 'There's so much noise in this place.' You see, so you were not used to the noise of India. Now you're used to it. She's used to it. I know there's been a lot of questions in the chats, Facebook chats also, but I've not been able to spend some energy on the Facebook. So, Ama also had one. Not sure who else had, but you can ask if you like, my dear.

No. I know there is still some identity in my mind. So can you mention some identity? Yes. Can you tell me? You feel that there's some type of identity which is still there?

Yes. Yes.

It seems like the seeker one.

No identity. Because it is only the seeker identity which will ask a question like that. Any else?

No, this one is good for now.

Oh, because it is a seeker identity itself. It says that identity should not be there because there is some suffering, so I want to inquire. Yes. But that is very easy. If you see the context of the thoughts which cause the suffering, of the belief in them which seem to cause the suffering, that itself will tell you the identity which is there. But usually what happens for those who come to satsang, it is the seeker identity which says these thoughts should not come. It should not be like this. This one is the most troublesome.

I need help. Since Saturday, okay, in person. When I was sitting here in the in-person satsang, I just felt like there were tears that were coming and I didn't know why. And it felt like I was missing you, but you were... I miss seeing you in the hangout. That was much better. It doesn't make any... I don't understand it. And it just feels like... I know that happens sometimes. There's just an attachment to the form, but I don't even know how to articulate it. It's just... it feels like something's been burning. Like I miss you when I'm away, but I see you every day.

What do you think now? Something left in this now?

I didn't want to expose it because I felt silly. Some remnants left now. Something... it's okay, just say it. Whatever it is, just say. But there was some fear bringing it up, like you're going to feel like I'm too attached and want me to go. But I can't... I can't quite... I can't believe that. But I just...

That's you not there in the Krishna Das thing. You heard this story from him. So Krishna Das mentioned that Neem Karoli Baba Maharaj used to be his teacher. So he did not have much English, obviously he did not have any English. So the ones who would come, they would learn some Hindi and Maharaji used to have these three main words. The three main words that he had were 'Aao' which means come, and second is 'Khao' which means to eat, and third is 'Jao' which means go. So he says that in the ashram it is only these three things: Aao, Khao, and Jao. It's come, eat, and go. You see, so then he says that he was there for a few years and he basically had given up his American life and he felt that he'll always be in Rishikesh. He'll live in India. Then one day Maharaj Ji called him and he said, 'Jao,' which means go. And Krishna Das was like, 'What? Jao?' So this can be there. So it is so beautiful that Maharaji saying 'Jao' led to this Krishna Das who gives so much beautiful music to the world now. Beautiful according to many, not very beautiful according to some as well, but like this. It can flow like this very much.

So trust this deeper intuition which works from here and it will not be contrary to the truth. And if you need to hear something, it will just arise from here. It will obviously be in something which is in service to your own truth. It can never attack you really. So if there's ever a time where I feel, yes, this kind of attachment is there, although I don't feel I've ever said that like this because I know that there is nothing personal ever in the reciprocation that comes from here, isn't it? So whatever, even if there is some sort of a personal something that arises, it only arises to burn itself. It only arises so that it can get burned completely. So even this is not a problem. So if it feels like something personal is coming, something like that with the unattached one, it's completely fine because it'll find no reciprocation in any sort of form and then it'll just burn itself and you'll find even a greater space, even greater space. So don't resist and don't judge yourself. Oh, why this? This is right, this is not right. Okay, very good. It's been a long satsang. So let's have a song now. You wanted to see?

No, I'm fine. I simply get dumbfounded. I mean, I feel there's no nothing. I'm okay. I'm in peace.

Can I sing a song? Of course, my dear. I was just going to ask you to actually. And I just want to say as well, just what Anandi said there, that was what... I can't remember what my question was exactly, but that's what I was writing in Silent Space the other day. That like this kind of feeling of... it's like as if there's like separation because there's like a real strong feeling of like longing for something even though I know that there is no separation. It's there anyway. I can't remember what the question was.

Yes, this longing I know very well from my master. There's so much longing. There's complete oneness and complete longing. They coexist at the same time.

Yeah. So, I think like for a moment I was kind of like confused because I thought it was coming from some place that wasn't true, but I don't even feel that's not true. I feel it's like from my being just loving itself. I have to look at the words even.

Thank you. Thank you. Okay, my dear Shani, we can play the invocation now.